Misses a key point of the trope: Involuntary Battle To The Death

"Note that for a situation to be an example of this trope, the participants have to be people who would not kill each other in a normal situation."

The current image doesn't show that.

Hmm...Has Star Trek been around long enough for people two recognize that those two are usually together? Ehh...yeah, I'll side with caution, I say pull it.

For all anyone knows there could be a Face–Heel Turn or brainwashing involved. The image doesn't convey "we're fighting even though we don't want to".

Bumping because I stumbled across the page and this wasn't resolved. I still think it should be pulled.

Yeah, I'll support pulling it as well...doesn't adequately demonstrate the trope.

I hate to say it...

I suggest order of the stick. Relevant page later.

3 posts is good enough for me

Clock is set.

This was a bad pull, done on only three people's say-so. Can we put the image back up and leave it until a better is suggested?

It doesn't communicate "involuntary" or "to the death" at all; thus it's a poor depiction of the trope and needed to go.

Doesn't really say "battle" either.

I believe this is exactly the sort of thing Fast Eddie was talking about in this post. (And I realize said a post came a week after the pull, so I'm not suggestion that the pull was done in bad faith or anything.)

It's two friends with strong Pop-Cultural Osmosis engaged in an obvious struggle. It doesn't unambiguously show every aspect of the trope, but it's certainly neither NSFW nor actively harmful to understanding of the trope, and shouldn't have been pulled under current rules.

An image that demostrates only part of a trope is a harmful image as it can mislead people about what the trope is about. And ahrmful images are worse than no image.

Neither the picture nor the caption indicates that they are being made to fight against their will. It is non-demonstrative and potentially misleading, and because of that is worse than no image.

Fairly soon, you'll be able to use a Hunger Games pic.

How could someone read the title "Involuntary Battle to the Death" then look at that picture and still be confused?

Seriously, describe a situation in which someone with his basic mental faculties intact would be misled by that picture.

edited 23rd Feb '12 4:05:24 PM by abk0100

1. It hardly looks like a battle.

2. For all anyone knows, Face–Heel Turn or Brainwashed and Crazy could be in play. Yes, most people ARE familiar with the characters of Kirk and Spock. No, not everyone is familiar with all of the plotlines of the series. We try to accommodate everyone.

It hardly looks like a battle.

See, this is why I said someone with "his basic mental faculties intact." A reader knows it's a battle because, even they really can't tell just by the picture, "battle" is in the trope's name.

For all anyone knows, Face Heel Turn or Brainwashed and Crazy could be in play.

That isn't a reason it's misleading; that's a reason that it isn't informative. If they looked like they were brainwashed, that would be misleading.

"It could be..." is a fool's game; play it long enough and you'll wind up deciding that every trope is unpicturable, except those that are purely visual in nature. It's not a picture's job to convey every detail of a trope, because pictures are terrible at doing that. Text is good at doing that, which why we have trope descriptions.

Folks, the standard has always been that the pic can't rely on outside text to get the trope across; it has to demonstrate the trope as clearly as possible by its own merits. Kirk/Spock fails that test badly.

Haven't we been easing back on that lately? I mean, standard procedure is now more along the lines of "a picture is usuable as long as the visual (non-text) elements contribute to the illustration of the trope". There a plenty of allowable images that rely on the text to a degree. They just can't be completely reliant.

Also, in regard to the Kirk vs. Spock picture, I couldn't even tell that it was Kirk fighting at first, which is another problem with the image.

edited 24th Feb '12 8:56:48 AM by JapaneseTeeth

The Order of the Stick has been mentioned; perhaps the third-last panel of this page?

"Haven't we been easing back on that lately? I mean, standard procedure is now more along the lines of "a picture is usuable as long as the visual (non-text) elements contribute to the illustration of the trope". There a plenty of allowable images that rely on the text to a degree. They just can't be completely reliant."

We're easing back on pulling images immediately (as long as they aren't NWS/memes). We can still call out images for being JAFAAC/poor demonstrations.

If this thread had been made after the new policies, the pic would probably have not been pulled, but all the arguments against it would still be sound.

edited 24th Feb '12 12:21:14 PM by KaiserMazoku

Clock's up; locking for inactivity/lack of consensus. No further action is to be taken based on this thread.