Cabin In The Woods

Draconomicon: What about, say, New Nightmare?

Isn't it kind of a given that a parody of/commentary on a genre is going to contain many of the tropes/cliches/formulas of that genre? Otherwise how can it comment on them?

edited 13th Jun '12 5:56:54 PM by RavenWilder

Let me address your criticisms...

Who were forced to become that way. One girl was given blond hair dye laced with brain-killing chemicals. The people running the ritual used aphrodisiacs to get two characters to have sex in the middle of the dark spooky woods. All the stereotypical wasn't being exhibited until the characters reached the cabin, because they were being chemically forced into it.

I'll give you that. But this is more of a necessity in storytelling in general. You need humor in order to avoid Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy. Though it should be noted that one of the archetypes they needed to enforce was "The Fool."

Because, as I alluded to before if my previous comments about the movie, the characters are selfish and not heroic. Like many horror movies, the "heroes" weren't actually heroes. Most horror movies will make the protagonists dicks so we don't feel too bad about them dying. This movie takes those same dicks and puts them in a situation where all they have to do to save the world is sacrifice themselves... so it should come as no surprise that they decide that the world can rot.

It should also be noted that whereas most horror protagonists will be killed off right as they think they've survived, the two remaining characters choose to die on their own terms, which is actually a defiance of the usual trope.

Are you sure about that ending stuff? Most horror films I've seen end with at least one survivor, and the killer isn't usually one of them.

I think s/he's referring to how so many horror movies make use of The End... Or Is It?. True, we don't usually see the lead characters die, but often we'll end with a reveal that the killer/monster was Not Quite Dead, and the film will cut to black moments (sometimes mere seconds) before it can wreak bloody revenge on the survivors.

ngrey 651:

Ahhh... I don't think anyone was going into religion, but your analysis of Whedon's anti-Christianity (if such a thing exists) really doesn't make a lot of sense. Christianity's "ending" was always pretty bittersweet. I mean, in Revelation, Jesus beats the dragon and everything, but the world ends and think of all the souls that couldn't/wouldn't be saved...

maxwellelvis:

I haven't seen New Nightmare in many years. I think I saw it when it was first out on video cassette. I remember liking it, but mostly for the way it tinkered with the franchise lore.

edited 14th Jun '12 12:39:22 PM by Dracomicron

Dracomicron:

"Ahhh... I don't think anyone was going into religion, but your analysis of Whedon's anti-Christianity (if such a thing exists) really doesn't make a lot of sense. Christianity's "ending" was always pretty bittersweet. I mean, in Revelation, Jesus beats the dragon and everything, but the world ends and think of all the souls that couldn't/wouldn't be saved... "

Well, that's a third of the world's population, but keep in mind, everybody else who died comes back to life, and the remainder are irredeemably evil. I guess my issue with Joss is that he's incapable of making a kind of ending that feels...well, like something good was accomplished and that that's the end of it. No annoying stinger at the end showing something's left unfinished, no villain still lurking in the shadows, he always, ALWAYS goes bittersweet. ALWAYS. And it isn't edgy or new or exciting anymore, it's freakin' annoying.

And then there's the whole "people sacrificing people to dark gods" thing. Gee. Never seen THAT before. Can he not keep spirituality or faith out of his movies if he can't stop taking jabs at them?

...that seemed more like a needed plot, and less to do with faith. There was no religion in it. They needed a reason for the people to be sacrificed. So they made one.

Yeah, not really seeing any antireligious elements to Cabin in the Woods.

Wut?

I'm pretty damn sure that:

A) More than a third of the world's population is non-Christian.
B: The Biblical view on non-Christians is not "irredeemably evil".

edited 16th Jun '12 12:45:59 PM by Kerrah

Kerrah, I'm speaking in regards to the Book of Revelation, and the idea of the "Rapture". That's all about a basic choice: either accepting God, who will make it VERY obvious he is very, VERY real, or rejecting him and siding with the Anti-Christ, because at that point there won't be an "either/or". It's either good or evil. And anybody who's clearly saying "there's no such thing as God" when all light in the world turns dark, all the waters turn to blood, and three or four other Biblical prophecies get fulfilled right in front of the world's eyes...that goes beyond ignorance and into outright selfish denial of the truth.

But in regards to the Cabin in the Woods and faith discussion...it just seems very hard to not make the connection considering you have an organized group of people sacrificing to dark gods "for the good of all" and manipulating people into acting and behaving differently than they normally would. But even if that isn't there, this brings up a new question. Why all the freakin' secrecy?

If people want to willingly sacrifice themselves on a regular basis knowing this will keep the world safe, FINE. Tell the world! SHOW them what you have! People are gonna freakin' believe you when they see the mermen! There's no good reason for them not to make this sort of thing publicly known except to add a layer of pretentious twaddle to the plot. It makes absolutely no sense they'd keep this thing a secret. What, are they afraid people are gonna panic? Kind of a small thing to worry about!

That sounds good and all, but don't the Ancient Ones specifically want a horror movie format? Kind of hard to do that with willing sacrifices.

It's not a plot meant to be "this is about evil gods"

The plot is meant to be "what universe would these horror movies all exist in, collectively?"

And even if it was about evil gods, the trappings we see associated with them seem largely pagan in nature, so I don't see what it's got to do with Christianity.

edited 16th Jun '12 6:55:39 PM by RavenWilder

As a member of the church, Revelations is so ridiculously muddled, most scholars don't even want to go there.

But as stated, the movie isn't even about that form of religion. It's not about religion at all. It's a horror film about horror films. Some people can't even figure out if it's cheering the genre on or bashing it(I think it's doing both).

Prowler: A loving hate letter, according to Word of God. They love the genre, but hate what it's become.

This is starting to get freaking off-topic, but feel free to give citations to support your claims. I've seen so many people posit so many views (sometimes opposing ones) and say the Bible supports them, that I'm not gonna take anything for granted until I see the exact quote you're talking about.

Also, you still claimed that two thirds of the world's population are Christian, which is double of the actual figure.

edited 17th Jun '12 2:50:30 AM by Kerrah

This.

If you get hung up on the specifics, you're missing the point.

Fine, but you all missed my other point, this new question. I repeat: WHY ALL THE FREAKIN' SECRECY?!?

Again, if people want to willingly sacrifice themselves on a regular basis knowing this will keep the world safe, FINE. Tell the world! SHOW them what you have! People are gonna freakin' believe you when they see the mermen! There's no good reason for them not to make this sort of thing publicly known except to add a layer of pretentious twaddle to the plot. It makes absolutely no sense they'd keep this thing a secret. What, are they afraid people are gonna panic? Kind of a small thing to worry about!

Why, of course it has to be secret; the Elder Gods are fans of method acting, ''isn't it obvious''?

edited 17th Jun '12 3:18:57 PM by maxwellelvis

It's a typical gov't conspiracy plot. It's like the Masquerade plot.

I didn't, but it appears you missed my response. I'll quote it for you:

Also, we have no idea what other forces exist in this world. If evil elder gods exist, there might exist the forces necessary to defeat them permanently.

The organization is in a sketchy position of not wanting the world to be destroyed, but also enjoying their position as the wardens. Completely outside of the "willing subjects ruin the fun" thing, organized sacrifice that is publically known about would, shall we say, catalyze resistance. There are a lot of people who would like to just take their chances with the world-destroying evil gods than live in a society that sacrifices people so sadistically.

I have one question about this movie, though: The FUBAR with the cave-in and the other glitches, they seem to suggest that they were on somebody's orders "It came from upstairs" said one of the techs at some point. Did someone in the organization WANT this to happen?

edited 18th Jun '12 7:45:16 AM by Dracomicron

The base was located beneath the Cabin. When the tech mentioned "upstairs", he was literally referring to above them. Stoner dude messed with the wiring in that elevator access room he found, and that screwed up their communications

Huh, interesting. I had assumed that, by "upstairs," they meant "higher up in the organization."

Stoner dude got some crazy-ass tech powers near the end.