The other 1% our Service Men and, Should we fear the ARMY?

Seriously, how is the military of your own country viewed, Baff?

Well for one I am an Ameircan citizen so the U.S army is the army of my country.

edited 1st Dec '11 12:53:10 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

How about the military of the country you actually live in?

Individual units (in a systematic way across the country) executed over a 1000 civilians, over the last 8 years and then dressed them up as guerrilla fighters in order to recieve bonuses from the military.

Those 1000 people where between 20 to 25 and many had mental disabilites.

They also participated in various masacres along side parmilitary groups, one such case in which, the killed 20 something policemen belonging to the Colombian version of the DEA.

Generals also have a nasty habit of calling people insurgents or colaborators of the Marxists in public, and of course, then the paramilitary either kill them or stalk them.

Both the army and the paramilitaries where, of course, trained by our friends at the pentagon.

So in the country where I am living at there is a double perception. The right calls them the Glorious Army, and pretty much they worship them.

The left is afraid, and very critical of them.

edited 1st Dec '11 1:43:04 PM by Baff

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

I would say that pretty much applies to every third world country.

I'd like to add that from where I come from, the military is not only viewed as corrupt but also inefficient. Just recently, in a clash with terrorists, 26 were wounded and the terrorists even had the chance to behead 2 and kill 5 more.

Personally though, I think the military is cool but just misunderstood and misused by the government.

edited 1st Dec '11 1:47:27 PM by MarquisDev

"If music be the food of love, PLAY ON" - William Shakespeare

Yes it does. But now lets go back on track.

We are talking about the US military.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

I don't recall shooting live ammo at anything aside from plastic targets, nor did we stalk civilians or go on foot patrols through Smalltown USA. But I was in a maintenance unit and all of that was prior to 9/11, so whatever. I don't see that happening, though.

The only time I think a civilian needs to worry about their military is if the civilian is acting in such a manner that they're no longer viewed as a civilian, and more as a genuine threat.

(of course, that all depends on definitions of "civilian", "genuine" and "threat"...)

edited 1st Dec '11 3:09:41 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

The most corrupt part of the military is the Flag ranks. Lt. Colonel and up because of amount of politics you have to play to get there.

These are also the ranks that are tied to the various military contractors and suppliers.

Barkey: I don't know what Marine Corps you know but from my experience we had a lot of everthing from Shamans, to Satanists, Aethists, etc. The religious right whackos and dominiosts are frowned upon rather strongly. Their religious fanaticism was often seen to be a hinderance to doing their duty. The Corps has it's own brand of fanaticism that works rather well for it.

A lot of the rank and file of the military comes from poor to middle income families and quite often their collective experiences quite permanently colour their view on life.

If anything the segment of the military i would worry about is the one most directly conected to the civlian leadership. Ie Lt. Colonel Rank and above.

As for General Smedly Butler and the buisness plot, certain individuals attempted to recruit him to attempt a miltiary coups against FDR around the time of WWII. Smedly talked to them a little bit gathered some info then said um no and turned them in. He wrote the book "War is a Racket." It takes a rather dismal view of how the corporations use their power and money to influence politicians into using the U.S. military as a tool for monetary gains in other nations. Smedley was U.S. Marine in the early 1900's and got to experience and witness first hand what was gong on. He eventually figured it out and became a serious and very vocal critic of the government and the upper echelons of the military leadership.

Who watches the watchmen?

He was also the most condecorated men in the army for his bravery in combat if I recall correctly.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.

condecorated?

Surely you mean decorated?

Keep Rolling On

Smedley was in the Marine Corps actually, not the Army.

Marines trip on ownership of Smedley, he's kind of their biggest hero.

No he is not the most decorated MARINE. He is considered a Marine Corps hero though. The point was that he saw serious issue with how the upper echelons of the military and the civilian leadership operated the military for the benefit of corporations and not for something more noble.

edited 2nd Dec '11 12:15:24 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Who watches the watchmen?

I think it's just the Air Force Academy in Colorado, really. But while, for example, West Point is important, the vast majority of officers don't come from military academies or schools; they went about getting their degree the regular way, or are Mustangs*

^{former enlisted who got commissioned}

.

lolwhut.jpg

And yet, the majority of military members have never had to shoot at anyone, let alone shoot to kill. Yet you're terrified of us because we're willing to pick up a gun in the defense of others. Are you also terrified of police officers? After all, they are potentially called upon to kill for a living as well.

So would I, but that's because the kind of person who brags about their killcount probably isn't quite stable.

Hoorah for sociopathic tendencies.

I never did foot patrols through Smalltown USA, but I did in Smalltown Japan. Of course, we were doing the patrols to protect the civilians from other servicemembers.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

First of all, I may be generalizing, but I was always under the impression that killing was sort of the entire point of having an army. I realize that there are non-combat jobs within the military, yes. But I would be unconvinced that that's a majority.

I am also apprehensive because I know of a number of people my own age who are planning to join the military because—and this is a direct quote—they'll get to "shoot towelheads". That kind of person being in the armed forces scares me. I'm well aware that not all servicemen are like that, but again I outlined my other reasons above. I'm not comfortable around that kind of thing.

Also servicemen tend to have a pride in their branch of the military that I find rather unnerving in its intensity. Though I couldn't tell you why I do.

As for your second question, I'm actually much more apprehensive about police officers, mostly because I'm related to one and he likes to share stories about how much of a racist fuck he is, and how much of a racist fuck the rest of his department is. I say more because I am far more likely to encounter a policeman than a member of the military that I'd recognize as being such.

what?

edited 2nd Dec '11 2:29:04 PM by BlixtySlycat

go ahead and do every stupid thing you can imagine

Whether you believe it or not, I'm pretty sure that outside of massive mobilization times (i.e. World War I and II), the support staff significantly outnumbers the combat personnel...

I am now known as Flyboy.

^^ Wrong.

The tooth to tail ratio - Warfighters compared to support personnel - is something like 1:10. So for every one infantryman, there's about ten suport pukes (like I was) feeding him spare parts, repaired gear, driving them around, cooking his meals, providing fuel, pay, equipment, laundry service, clean water, showers, and loads of other stuff.

Consider: I fixed radios. Tuefel fixed small arms. Barkey is military police. Cganale moves bombs around. Not sure what Blue Ninja and the other active/veteran tropers do, but the point is, you are more likely to run into a suport puke than an actual infantryman in day-to-day conversation.

If you have nothing but infantrymen, that unit will grind to a halt within a few days even without having to shoot anyone.

edited 2nd Dec '11 2:31:59 PM by pvtnum11

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

They are indeed the majority actually, as said it's 10 to 1 for support to shooters.

I'm telling you, read On Killing. It talks about how in war people are willing to carry ammunition and messages or risk running out to aid a wounded comrades with very little hesitation... But when it comes to actually taking a life, they will hesitate and avoid at a moments notice.

See, I don't really consider this a bad thing.

I suppose it's bad in the context of a military, and what one is supposed to do. But frankly, I'd do the exact the same thing. I think most people would, really. And one reason the military as an institution scares me is because it overrides that impulse. Obviously, so does the enemy's military, and I'm not advocating we just talk it out or something, that's not always possible, sadly. But I think that my self-admittedly irrational fear of such things is at least somewhat understandable.

go ahead and do every stupid thing you can imagine

(Lt. Gen.) Chesty Puller is.

Chesty Puller?

Chesty....Puller.

Chesty?

Chesty.

go ahead and do every stupid thing you can imagine

The 1985 firebombing of the MOVE protestors in Philadelphia says hi.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.

^^^^

Personal opinion here, but I think people kind of overexaggerate such things.

I don't think it's such a big deal, but maybe that's just me and conditioning talking.

Probably 95% of both the Navy and Air Force haven't lifted a weapon, let alone shot at anyone, since we left boot camp.*

^{Even there, at the time I went through it, we didn't have live ammo - we had M-16-sized laser pointers.}

While every Marine is trained as a rifleman first, there are still large chunks of the Marines and Army that are in primarily non-combat roles, like supply, clerks, maintenance, who are less likely to have fired at anyone.

I understand that, but part of boot camp is shaping your thought processes in a particular direction, and there are few institutions as anti-racism as the enlisted forces of the military. They should get this beaten out of them*

^{figuratively speaking, of course}

before they would ever be deployed.

When in a foreign country, and sometimes even in American territories, the ship/command will assign people to a watch that the Navy calls "Shore Patrol." The purpose is to patrol an area, typically with a lot of drinking establishments, to help prevent young, drunk servicemembers from doing something unforgivably dumb. Their job is to break up fights before they start, ensure people aren't drinking themselves into unconsciousness, and prevent other crimes like vandalism.

I'm an electrician.

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

High-five, I got the PIE/EIR chart taped to my desk.

Happiness is zero-gee with a sinus cold.

http://newsvoice.se/2011/12/02/us-senate-declares-the-entire-usa-to-be-a-battleground/

Basically now the US will be a war zone and the military will be able to operate in it freely.

I will always cherish the chance of a new beggining.