Redemption is becoming overvalued.

Melting down a piece of bent metal to re-use it is redemption. The metal gets moved to a position where is can be a valuable member of society, not thrown into a landfill.

Edit: California even uses the word Redemption as a synonym for Recycling.

edited 27th Nov '11 2:37:18 PM by Michael

Now you got me thinking of the Turret Redemption Line.

Then who decides it? You?

To be honest, I have difficulty seeing redemption as something that is objectively 'decided' to have taken place. I mean what? Isn't it more of a question in whose eyes they have redeemed themselves? Who goes and declares "Okay this guy has redeemed himself from his crimes of murder"?

@To pretty much everyone. My viewpoint has changed. Really, I merely made that post whenever I was upset about some criminals getting away with crime (I don't exactly remember but it was local) and I got upset. I didn't do the research, I didn't think "hey maybe this isn't a good idea" to post. I know you hate hearing this from me but I'm sorry, I'm sorry for being a fucking idiot and if you wish mods then you can simply lock this thread and kick my ass out of this board. Thank you everyone and I'm sorry I wasted your time, I'll get this lesson imprinted to the back of my skull even if it hurts me.

The Self-Deprecation... it's killing me!

@PHC

Realizing your mistakes is a good thing. And posting something stupid out of anger happened to many people before. Even to me!

So you made a deliberately inflammatory thread and are now trying to make up for it with heavy self-depreciation?

Lovely.

I find your repeated use of the terms "human" and "inhuman" simultaneously amusing and disturbing. I believe that one of the underlying principles of revenge is the denial of any link between ourselves and those who have done something we cannot abide—and it's partly because that link cannot be destroyed, and no man can ever become anything other than a man, that I cannot abide revenge, nor can I abide the lies people tell to themselves to justify revenge. Killing is the same whether or not you're killing a killer, and if you say otherwise, then you are no different from the killers you despise—but I would not support killing you, because you're still human.

Wow, that came out a lot more inflammatory than I thought it would. I shouldn't take it back, though—I ought to stand up for my beliefs at least once in a while.

edited 27th Nov '11 9:46:57 PM by feotakahari

I didn't mean to do that, I actually thought I'd get at least a few people agreeing with me. Seeing as most tropers think Humans are Bastards.

Well, I don't really consider it very self-defeating at all.

edited 27th Nov '11 9:45:47 PM by PinkHeartChainsaw

Well that is just what it looked like to me.

I suppose I should be thankful that someone around here at least knows how to formulate an apology.

I certainly don't. I just think that the internet brings out the best and worst in people, and the latter is where you get that sentiment from.

@Feo: What you are talking about there sounds an awful lot like the Slavering Beast theory (Though that's more in reference to rape and domestic violence).

It's the argument that there are "people" and then there are "monsters" and that monsters are fundamentally different in some way to actual people. So if someone does something really bad, then they are obviously just some kind of monster, and don't need to be treated like a person any more (Or the counter, that everyone knows they are a good person, so what they did couldn't possibly be all that bad.)

It really ignores the way that an average, everyday person can do horrendous things - and that the exact same person can also do amazingly heroic things, too.

Whether or not the justice system we have is effective (or the sentences are appropriate) is an entirely separate debate.

This. This, so goddamn much.

Indeed it is.

See, I think that murderers, and possibly even rapists deserve a second chance. And if they can't turn away from those impulses (assuming we're talking about the serial kind), give them a job that would satisfy said impulses.

A serial killer for instance, could get a job that involves killing criminals and other such people. Rapists however, are another story entirely, and would be much harder to fix.

Of course, this again runs into problems with the justice system we have now, and only covers the most extreme types of murderers and rapists.

Uhh, yeah, I'm sure that will work.

I find it interesting how so many people assume that they know exactly what's going on in the heads of all the criminals out there (assuming they all shared one mindset, personality, backstory, and motivations), when in reality, many of the people posting don't seem to have a clue. Until you have been in the situation where one bad decision, made in haste, has the potential to wreck your entire life, I suggest you refrain from judging those who have been. A lot of criminals are irredeemable, and a few of those are pathologically so, but taking an approach that everyone who commits crimes (yes, even violent ones) must face irrevokable damnation is, quite frankly, a sign of childish naivete.

Good on you, PHC, for realizing your mistake.

I just wonder how it is "becoming" overvalued, and what signifies this really happening.

A serial killer for instance, could get a job that involves killing criminals and other such people.

So you want killers to kill criminals? What?

Rapists however, are another story entirely, and would be much harder to fix.

Much harder to fix? Well yeah... please give me an example of a situation that would justify them in raping somebody.

Much harder to fix? Well yeah... please give me an example of a situation that would justify them in raping somebody.

If I could, I would have.

Then don't say that they should be given a job that satisfies their lust.

I'll say whatever I damn well please thankyouverymuch.

You can say it, but expect to be called out on it.

Free discussion, remember?

You can say whatever you want, but that doesn't mean everybody has to respect that.

Not that you said that anybody should...

Ninja'd.

edited 29th Nov '11 12:46:23 AM by kay4today

Same thing goes for you guys as well.

-*sigh*- Nevermind

edited 29th Nov '11 1:15:17 AM by Rynnec

Same what?

We can say whatever we damn well please about your posts.

edited 29th Nov '11 1:32:15 AM by kay4today

Isn't thinking that people can be 'beyond redemption' because of the fact that they've offended a bit presumptuous? I mean, sure, they need to be punished, but does it really make them 'less than human' and all that?

I don't think it makes them less of a human. Mostly because murder, rape et cetera aren't exactly inhuman.

I'm about to ask you to prom, I like that answer.

I've got a question, then: is the death penalty basically an admission that those sentenced are beyond redemption?