Issues with balancing Shape-shifting

Okay, here's the deal... I have a world where humans and certain other monsters coexist, several of which are actually human subspecies. Two of these are noted for shape-shifting. The problem is this is a world where "Fireball-equals-Firearm" and magic "works when physics back is turned." And since "the books must be balanced" the laws of conservation are in effect. Now as long as the mass and energy are accounted for things go smooth. But where do i draw the lines? How do I handle using Sentient lifeforms for mass(I'm thinking insanity?) Should the species be limited to one or two forms or just able to shift as they wish? What about clothing, does it return when they shift back? I've looked around for ideas but could always use more help.

Need to know about strange weapons, especially weird guns? I know em, and if i don't I'll find them.

They can only shift into things with the same mass as themselves.

Yes, that means they could probably pull off a deer. Or they could be a tiny hippopotamus. Or a gigantic rabbit.

This is how I've always handled it.

My shape-shifters can only shift into something of the same mass, this means my werewolves become around dire wolf sized or even larger for 80kg+ humans (as warriors tend to be). Werebears make for smallish bears but still bloody strong with sharp claws and teeth.

As my shape-shifters are only werewolves and werebears, that's not really an issue.

It also means there are no "cheats" like having the hero turn into a sparrow and fly out of the prison cell through the window.

The restriction is so well known in-Universe that tales of old heroes turning into swans and flying are viewed as apocryphal - most likely exaggerations or poetic licence on the part of the bards - as anyone with a bit of smarts would realise that a 70kg swan is not going to get off the ground.

"Conservation of Mass" is a scientific law well-known to anyone of learning.

My favorite explanation that i've heard for mass-shifting is a pocket dimension (or similar) that just holds the extra mass somehow. This would still make it difficult for transformations into much larger things, but that's probably for the better.

It does involve a larger stretch of belief and the laws of physics, but come on, actual shapeshifting is already impossible enough.

Forget the tropes until after you're done.

Yeah, trying to realistically explain shape-shifting will just teeter around on the Willful Suspension Of Disbelief. The more "realistic" you try to make it, the more you beg the reader to proof-check how correct that would be.

However, even with that said, I think the best you could is just keep it to "can only transform to things of equal mass." Maybe even twist it up, you can "add" mass to yourself by using other objects around you to shape-shift? So if you want to transform into something that's twice your mass, you can grab onto a rock equal to your mass and use it to help you shape-shift? Then once you're shift back, the rock is also with you. That would also explain the clothes issue.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior

The first thing I thought of right away was the ability to absorb someone else into your new form, then release them in a form not suitable for living, functioning organisms.

But then you can include things like "magical soul/mind fighting" and since the shifter's mind will have to be preoccupied somehow with the new shape, they'll lose these battles and thus this easy kill method won't get used.

And then to avoid merging with the rock, you'd have a sense of identity or something. Which could be pretty hilarious/horrible if you take your clothes for granted and include them as part of you.

Forget the tropes until after you're done.

Just like to point out that fully generalized shapeshifting is perhaps one of the most storybreakerish powers ever to exist, though the only place I've seen it used anywhere near to its capacity is in Time Braid.

Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)

My bestial fey are sometimes shapeshifters. I always have the "pocket space for extra mass" thing.

I like the idea of taking mass from the environment to assume larger forms, but it would change the whole nature of my magick system.

Level 3 Social Justice Necromancer. Chaotic Good.

My shape shifters always have to be naked or near-naked (a cloak or a belt or similar that would just fall off the new form) and have to work around the need to carry clothes etc somehow if travelling in beast form.

Being able to assimilate the mass of something else would not work in my universe as I have taken measures to ensure you don't get wise-arses running around turning base metals into gold and fucking the economy. (Transmutation of inorganic materials isn't impossible, just very very impractical). Transforming a living human is "easier" but requires extensive magical modification of the person and significant similarities between the two forms (right number of limbs etc) - you won't get people transforming into starfish or lizards.

And, contrary to "all" the werewolf movies, if the shape shifter is killed, they remain in whatever form they were in when they died - each transformation takes a conscious effort, which you can't do if you're dead.

It also makes you very hungry unless you've eaten very recently and you can't transform if you don't have enough energy reserves.

It does have the potential to be a serious story-breaker so I tend to subject it to reasonable "realistic" (as much as you can be realistic when talking about turning a human into an animal) constraints and keep it consistent. Mind you, I've always been of the Magic A is Magic A persuasion.

And turning someone else, unwitting or unwilling, into another creature is practically impossible so long as they live - or at least a lot harder than transmuting lead into gold.

@post6: That works with turning into bigger things... what about a guy turning into a squirrel or something? Does that make a 90+ pound rock that he'll have to touch to become human again?

edited 18th Nov '11 10:06:17 AM by SalFishFin

No, because a man of average weight can't become a functional squirrel unless he lost a ton of weight. Though, I guess it depends on what the original form of the shape-shifter is. If the shape-shifter began as, say, a really dedicated ant, then they pretty much have full access to any animal, so long as they find enough mass.

But, with a human, no. He could become a really big squirrel, but, well, if you're gonna keep the Square-Cubed Law into place, that wouldn't work too well. As a human, you can add mass to yourself to the "mix," but unless you find anti-mass or something, you could never become a smaller, proportionally light shape.

I'm pretty sure the concept of Law having limits was a translation error. -Wanderlustwarrior

Given sufficient wingspan, a 70 kg swan would lift off the ground. It'd be a huge-ass swan, though.

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

Come to think of it, if your setting utilizes a Background Magic Field, you could have characters convert energy from the field into mass to become bigger, and put out energy to become smaller. It'd require a hell of a lot of energy, though (mc^2, if I remember correctly), and a character shifted into a small animal might not have the brainpower necessary to switch back . . .

I just imagined a setting where the Background Magic Field has been almost completely used up, and the evil empire obtains energy for its magic by harvesting energy from mass. (It's the evil empire because, for one of several possible reasons, only things that can think are vulnerable to transformation magic.)

edited 18th Nov '11 6:35:33 PM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

You could keep everything as-is, but make shapeshifting into more than one or two forms difficult; perhaps the shapeshifter has to actually remember what to do with their body when they want to change form, which would be cumbersome to do.

I personally limit shapeshifting powers in my own 'verse by using Humanshifting*

and only allowing non-Humanshifters to change into, like, one form.

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth."

Thanks for the help. Not looking to end the conversation here but I'm leaning towards a Background Magic Field with the suggestion of only adding mass during shape-shift and releasing it in an identical form (and relative location in regards to the shifter.) Still debating the Sentient Being issue. So far this is building well as the two main characters are a Shapeshifter from an esteemed family in a region where the shapeshifters are considered superior, and a human from a family of gunsmiths in a rugged individualist culture. Trying to play them off each other and the inevitable culture shock.

Need to know about strange weapons, especially weird guns? I know em, and if i don't I'll find them.