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Total posts: [40]
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Examine this physics defying weapon:

Getting things done
I just thought of a magical weapon that defies a certain aspect of physics and I want to know exactly what laws of physics it does.

Basically, it is a gauntlet. If you punch something with your fist, it hurts because the force is applied at your fist as well. If you punch something wearing the gauntlet, however, your fist will be completely unharmed because it cancels out the reacting force (help me out here, how do I call it?). So the basic idea is that you can punch stuff as much as you want without hurting your fist when wearing this. I have two questions.

What kind of implication would this power have? Something physics related, but since Iím not good at science at all, I canít tell.

Another is related to its application. The user of the gauntlet (letís call him Guts) faces off a fighter whose raw strength is so great that he can break down steel with one punch. When the fighter attacks Guts, the latter punches the formerís fist and is unharmed, saying that if the gauntlet was worn while offense, it becomes invulnerable. Does this make any sense?

Sorry for thread launch spamming. I am not sure where I could post this.
Stay awesome, people.
 2 jasonwill 2, Thu, 20th Oct '11 8:15:55 AM from West Virginia
That's one of Newton's laws. the one about an equal action and reaction.

What would be the use? well considering that none of the force goes 'back' into the guy's fist, it has to go somewhere, so why not make all the force go into the thing he is punching!

So realistically (if defying that law could be called realistic) it would make his punches stronger, because 1) he could punch as hard as he wanted without fear of breaking his hand, and 2) all the force would be bundled up against his foes.

Though by how much the force would increase I do not know; it essentially means that there is no rebound and all of the energy is directed at the object struck.

edit: though my guess would be that the force of the punches would double.

Also as long as the gauntlet only strikes his target all the energy would HAVE to go into the target, because The Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy can't just disappear.

edited 20th Oct '11 8:23:45 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
See ALL the stars!
Momentum is no longer conserved. The consequences of that are essentially up to you.

edited 20th Oct '11 8:46:03 AM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.
 4 jasonwill 2, Thu, 20th Oct '11 9:01:31 AM from West Virginia
[up]

Lies. It obviously has to go somewhere and the only other place for it to go is all directly into the object he is punching.

He asked what the consequences of breaking this ONE law would be with the gauntlet. Just doing whatever he felt like would most likely break more laws.

He specified what would happen if the one law was ignored, and I gave him the proper scientific result. You can't just make the energy disappear, that requires breaking a whole other law(s) together. Making it do just about anything else would require more magic to be done to work with messing with the other laws.

Besides, that's double the power, why would anyone logically change anything else then the gauntlet ignoring that one law?

edited 20th Oct '11 9:02:38 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
See ALL the stars!
But momentum is a vector; it doesn't just need to go somewhere, it needs to go somewhere in the opposite direction from his punching motion.

And I meant more believability-wise. Once you've broken something as absolutely vital as conservation of momentum, you can get away with anything and it won't affect Suspension of Disbelief that much.

edited 20th Oct '11 9:37:39 AM by Yej

Da Rules excuse all the inaccuracy in the world. Listen to them, not me.
but he broke that law with magic. that is the only one that isn't working right. Otherwise he might as well make it so when the guy punches the whole universe collapses because every other law is broken as well.

I can't believe I am actually debating about this [it just seems silly to debate about is all] ... I was just saying that if some of the momentum can't go back into his hand it has to go with the rest of it. Normally when someone punches momentum goes BOTH back into your fist and into the person you hit.

But in the case that some of it can't go back into your first, it will have to go forward, with the rest of it. There are things designed to reflect most of the energy created by an impact at the object hit even today; it really isn't any different here except that all the energy is reflected back.

In fact, it doesn't even need to be all. It could just reflect most of the energy and make the amount that the gauntlet rebounds by negligible. That would keep Newton's Law intact as well. Either way it has to go somewhere.

Again, if it just disappeared then he would have to break two laws. But if he only breaks the one it will also give the guy using it more of a wallop, which it wouldn't if the momentum going back into his hand just disappeared.

edited 20th Oct '11 10:21:53 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
 7 Sal Fish Fin, Thu, 20th Oct '11 10:25:05 AM from on top of Your Mum Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Trolling Swordsman
I've thought of something similar. In this case, there's a set of twins, one who absorbs any energy that hits him, and the other can redirect that energy. So say the absorbing twin gets hit with a laser. The other twin can fire a laser beam of that exact strength back out once for every time his brother was hit with it.

So... What would happen if he were to jump off a building? When he lands on the ground, he absorbs the impact won't physically hurt him... but what about his own kinetic energy?

edited 20th Oct '11 10:25:25 AM by SalFishFin

[up] that sounds more complicated then what d roy proposed.

Though for all intents and purposes, what d roy is suggesting COULD be done, well, almost anyway. You just have to design it in a way that would make most of the momentum rebound towards what he was hitting.

Though such a thing would be unwieldy, and probably bulky and filled with springs and shaped weirdly... or not I do not know but i am sure some engineer would find a way to negate a vast amount of the momentum that the puncher recieves.
as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Getting things done
Ah yeah, this is basically like that time if I asked what would happen if one can create new energy out of nowhere. Pretty much pointless, really.

Momentum is a vector so it doesn't need to be conserved? What does that mean?
Stay awesome, people.
 10 jasonwill 2, Thu, 20th Oct '11 3:49:32 PM from West Virginia
[up]

She obviously is crazy. Look at her avatar.

Momentum is the mass times the velocity. It's the "wallop" of an object.

If this gauntlet only breaks Newton's Second Law then the kinetic (moving) energy will need to go somewhere, and since there is only one other place for it to go... into what is being punched, it will go there.

I would just say that it rebounds all the momentum at his target, as it would 1) make it not hurt him, and 2) it would make his punches stronger.

If you only ignore Newton's Second Law (the law you mentioned) that is what would happen. I'd just go with that because trying to get rid of the momentum that would go into his fist any other way only makes it more complicated.

edited 20th Oct '11 3:51:56 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Getting things done
That's pretty much what it does, yes. Oh, and that would be Newton's Third Law.
Stay awesome, people.
 12 Flanker 66, Thu, 20th Oct '11 3:56:37 PM from 30,000 feet and climbing Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
PAX BRITANNIA
@dRoy:

A vector is something that doesn't just have a magnitude, but also a direction. For example, velocity is a vector - I can't just say that it has a magnitude of 25 ms-1, I need to specify its' direction (say, 78 degrees east of north). Its' counterpart is a scalar - something that only has a magnitude.

Anyway, I can't particularly comment on the result of momentum no longer being conserved. I can just vaguely remember something about elastic and inelastic collisions. Sorry, dude. I'll try to get back to you tomorrow after I've gotten my facts straight (it doesn't help that I've only got a high school physics student's understanding of the subject).

EDIT:

Don't forget that some energy will be converted into sound and heat (minute amounts, but eh) as a result of the collision. Not sure if I'm remembering that right, though.

edited 20th Oct '11 3:57:41 PM by Flanker66

Locking you up on radar since '09

What a waste of hope,

What a shame it has to die.
Shadowed Philosopher
If the gauntlets cancel the reaction force applied backwards to the hand, they would be the ultimate Power Armor. With nothing to work against, the force of your unaided arm could break down anything. I suppose you could think of them as gauntlets of absolute movement, or something. And yes, they would also be impenetrable shields.

It's a broken weapon.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
 14 jasonwill 2, Thu, 20th Oct '11 4:06:43 PM from West Virginia
Damn it Roy I looked it up and your right. Why must I always get those two confused, and almost always forget the second law completely?

And to think I actually tried to read The Road to Reality. I quit when it got to real world calculus around page 100 of 1, 000. It went over my head there and only on the page about Black Hole Entropy did I ever understand the British bastard ever again in that book.

Silly Oxford Mathematicians and world renowned physicists, we all know that the American String Theorist Brian Greene makes more sense to the layman.

I believe it was Richard Feynman who once said:

"Sure, sex and physics both have practical applications, but that's not why you do it."

Please do not ask how that is relevant; it isn't other than its a cool quote by a famous physicists. Einstein can NEVER top that joke. Too bad both of them are dead.
as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Getting things done
The gauntlets, to be repeative, works as whenever they are in offense, it becomes unbreakable. However, if they are in defense, not really. Let's say if you swing a hammer at Guts. If he blocks it with the gauntlet, his hands will get hurt. If he punch the hammer, his hands will not be hurt.
Stay awesome, people.
 16 jasonwill 2, Thu, 20th Oct '11 4:12:59 PM from West Virginia
your avatar makes me imagine you in a constant state of despair, I'm sorry but I find it distracting and I needed to say that.

And yes, I am kind of manic right now.

Um... so did we answer your question? i'm confused now one what your asking.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly
Shadowed Philosopher
[up][up]That's...remarkably inconsistent, but we're already breaking conservation of momentum, so why not. tongue

In that case, they're just the power, not so much the armor.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
 18 JHM, Thu, 20th Oct '11 4:48:39 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up][up][up] So... it somehow redirects momentum in such a way that only the passive reacting component of a motion actually receives the force?

What.
Getting things done
[up][up] It takes "The best offense is the best defense" pretty much literally.

[up] Well, magic. tongue
Stay awesome, people.
 20 chihuahua 0, Thu, 20th Oct '11 5:46:23 PM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Writer's Welcome Wagon
[up][up] It makes sense. Of course, it's like a rocket where its propelling force is folded in a way that it's going in the same direction than the rocket, but that why it defies psychics.

Of course, we'll have to find a weakness for this weapon to prevent breaking the story. Hmm...

  1. Two gauntlets either redirect the force to one person, or push both of them back as the recoil and push each other.
  2. It's one way. It only works on redirectly recoil, but not a push by the opponent.
  3. Forces will go as normal if the wielder is hit anywhere except the gauntlet.

edited 20th Oct '11 5:47:30 PM by chihuahua0

Getting things done
Actually it's not treated as any serious weapon at all because of several reasons.

  1. Like chihuahua pointed out, hitting any other part of the body will be just like normal hit. The gauntlet covers up to little below his elbow. Lastly, he's not that fast, at least in comparison to the rest of the cast.
  2. Even when he's wearing it, if you manage to hit him before he can attack, the damage will be done. Still, even without the special effect, the gauntlet is made of solid metal...
  3. This is a near future society and the city he lives in is occupied with badass citizens and even more badass police forces and RIDICULOUSLY COMPETENT army. They have guns. Do the math.
  4. Lastly, it provides absolutely no defense against magical attacks like fireballs or lightning.
Stay awesome, people.
 22 Night, Thu, 20th Oct '11 5:59:16 PM from PSNS Intrepid Relationship Status: Drift compatible
Who you are does not matter.
The good old long rifle from a building 500 yards away played straight. I'm impressed.
Trusted Poster of Legitimate Advice (from Wo-Chan)
 23 JHM, Thu, 20th Oct '11 6:00:18 PM from Neither Here Nor There Relationship Status: I know
Thunder, Perfect Mind
[up][up] So, it's like a kind of skewed take on Awesome but Impractical, with the "awesome" being infinitely less impressive than it would be under "normal" circumstances due to the general impressiveness of the setting itself?

Wow. That's actually pretty clever. Very clever, in fact...

*entering pensive mode*

edited 20th Oct '11 6:02:39 PM by JHM

Shadowed Philosopher
True, in a setting like that they wouldn't be that much use in combat—or at least not gamebreaking. Quite useful if you need to break down walls, though.
Shinigan (Naruto fanfic)
 25 chihuahua 0, Thu, 20th Oct '11 7:17:42 PM from Standoff, USA Relationship Status: I'm in love with my car
Writer's Welcome Wagon
[up] Hmm...perfect weapon for close demolition—as long as you were an hardhat. tongue

Total posts: 40
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