Making A Serial Killer And A Rapist Likeable.

The scientist is keeping them in an incredibly run down warehouse, and they're chained to the walls. They aren't in an ACTUAL prison

edited 17th Oct '11 6:36:33 AM by gingerninja666

cheater.

They will all be dead unless the serial killer is in his cooling off period. if he's not, he might snap and take them; they will probably be out of his victimology so it would really make him go crazy breaking his M.O.

Unless he is a disorganized killer that is.

lets hope hes in that cooling down period. chances are he probably is given they are typically very long

gl

edited 17th Oct '11 7:14:57 AM by jasonwill2

Um... I'm afraid that you're more than slightly wrong here. Organised serial murderers are generally extremely selective, as their pathology is usually focused around a single victim type. The only exceptions to this are certain "visionary" murderers, extreme sexual sadists, pure psychopaths and thrill killers, all of whom are very rare.

@OP: Which one of them is dying first?

I said DISORGANIZED. the kind that goes around without a less specific M.O. typically they are low IQ and grew up in poverty. One killing they might use a rock, the other a golf club, but say the M.O. is beating them over the head.

And it is possible that the urge to kill could become so great that they could settle for less, though you are right, they are very specific. ive been watching too much criminal minds. sometimes in the show the killer snaps and goes off his victimology and goes nuts and kills a bunch of stuff because of somethin' or another. soz i should of known better lol

Disorganised killers are kind of an odd lot. But then again, that goes with the territory of being violently psychotic.

Your best bet is The Woobie. For example, Gaara of the Sand from [[Naruto]] may be a monster who thinks that the only way he can justify his existence is to kill other people, but when you look at how he got to that point, you suddenly start to feel sorry for him.

Basically, Gaara's father wanted a powerful weapon for his ninja village, so he implanted a sand spirit into Gaara when Gaara was still in his mother's womb. This shukaku defends its host by manipulating sand, but unfortunately it has a mind of its own, and its interpretation of what counts as an attack on its host is pretty broad. Accidentally bump into Gaara on the streets, and you will find yourself sand-blasted to death. The shukaku even killed Gaara's mother during birth, because it interpreted birth as an attack on Gaara.

Needless to say, the townspeople quickly learned to avoid Gaara as if their lives depended on it, which is pretty sad for a young boy who just wants to make friends and doesn't have any control over his supernatural power. And Gaara's own father, head of the village, decided that his son was an abomination that had to be put down, and started to send assassins after him. So Gaara got to go through childhood watching the shukaku tear assassin after assassin to pieces, and not having a single friend, either. There was, though, one person who seemed to care - Yashamaru, Gaara's aunt.

And then, this happened (about 4 minutes in): http://www.hulu.com/watch/41352/naruto-light-vs-dark-the-two-faces-of-gaara#s-p6-n2-so-i0

Yeah, that makes me feel a bit sorry for him.

Try Luthor, the book. It's a good interpretation of how really Bad people can be likable.

@tropetown

The Rapist is dying first, by virtue of having the serum injected into him before the others.

why do you ask?

All right. Now, do you need both of them to be likeable? You could play up the contrast between them, and make one of them a soulless monster, and the other one a Woobie. I'd personally go with the serial killer as the Woobie, as it's a greater challenge, but either one could work. I asked which one would die first, because I was going to suggest killing the Woobie first, and then spending more time showing just how heartless the other one was, but if you need both to be sympathetic, you can ignore that. In fact, you can even do it the other way around, if the purpose is to humanize one of the characters, rather than reinforce the idea that they're automatically Complete Monsters.

If you want ideas on how to make a serial killer (also a rapist, but he's closer to a typical serial killer than a typical rapist in my opinion) look sympathetic, look up the Dateline interview with Jeffrey Dahmer; it should give you some ideas on how to get in the head of a serial killer and make them seem reasonably accessible.

edited 17th Oct '11 11:34:25 AM by tropetown

Actually, the serial killer is supposed to be the one who's slightly sympathetic, and the rapist is mainly supposed to be pitiable, because of how much the serum has degenerated him.

How exactly does the serum affect the brain?

edited 17th Oct '11 11:40:15 AM by tropetown

It first causes intense aching pain across all areas of the body, then it causes mental degeneration akin to rapid onset dementia. Then death

I would go with making the rapist a Hannibal Lecter-like character, if you wanted to play up the effects of the serum. Intelligent and cultured, except he rapes people instead of eating them. As the serum progresses his growing dementia would be really obvious.

Hmm... Building upon that, how about an exceptionally intelligent control freak? He commits acts of sexual violence because they allow him a degree of dominance over others that he does not feel he normally has enough of, as well as fulfilling some kind of compulsive ritual; to whit, he is normally shockingly self-disciplined and verbally articulate, in complete mastery of his words and movements.

Now, take away that person's sense of self-control, bit by bit.

edited 17th Oct '11 12:25:32 PM by JHM

Hey, I made serial killers and rapists likable in my Sonic fanfic, Prison Island Break.

A sympathetic backstory can seem like you're just making excuses for them, if you forget the other things.

The main trick is to make it so they don't have control over what they do. They don't have to be nice, but if the reader feels like the rapist doesn't have control over his actions they are more inclined to feel sorry for them.

But while the rapist may even relish the act, he doesn't really have control over his desires, or the actions corresponding to his desires. He's a puppet; a slave to his diseased mind. A Complete Monster has control over choosing to do it and if he wanted to, he could stop, but Sympathy for the Devil begins with the rapist having a desire and, for whatever reason, (in this case a serum that is killing him) it's very clear that he lacks the strength to resist it.

Let me repeat that - the monster lacks morals, while the sympathetic villain lacks control. Such things can be enforced by other behaviour; wild tics, mood swings and possibly even visibly rationalising it, desperately insisting that there's a reason.

Additionally, they need something else; something they care for. An emotional weakness. It doesn't have to be a person or a pet. It can be something they have, or something that was taken away. A memory or a dream. Either way they care about it. It makes them mortal and vulnerable on the inside as well. It's not enough to give them a lack of control since that just makes you look like you're once again making excuses.

The exact same approach goes for a serial killer.

edited 29th Mar '12 6:18:36 AM by HarleyQuinnhyenaholic

They lack control, not morality as already mentioned is an easy trick. Motivated by a mix of vulnerability and vengeance makes them surrogates for what you wish you could do. Hell, a game on newgrounds right now casts you as a woman who shoots men who cheat on their girlfriends/visit strip clubs and this is presented as normal morality. Dexter works so long as people believe someone should be taking up everything the police fail at. The point being, make the audience subconsciously agree with why they're doing it, if not the actions. Dark wish fulfilment.

Death Wish got four sequels on racist old men who wished they could just blast all the fa****, immigrants and ni***** in their neighbourhoods because you just know they're responsible for all the crime. I'm sure you could find a way to make a less reprehensible version of that.

'The Woodsman' starring Kevin Bacon is a great example of a character study of a paedophile just released frm jail, trying to deal with the urges. I'm not saying you rip it off, I'm saying you look at how they did it. Telling from their perspective and showing the normality of their life works well, cf. 'Clockwork Orange'

Or just make them white and heterosexual. Oldest trick in the book when it comes to a core cast.

Serial killers and rapists don't have to be MADE likable.

They can be just as likable as you and me.

Consider than human history is full of times when killing and raping, (along as pillaging and plunderin) were considered normal, and at times, heroic things to do, it shouldn't be so hard to imagine them as simply men who kill and rape.

edited 29th Mar '12 10:35:04 AM by Natasel

While a killer can be likeable - I was just listening to Kate Adie talking about meeting a meeting a African Dictator, where she described him as very affable, yet minutes before he had been in the cells below killing people - with a rapist it is very difficult.

Rapists often have no empathy, and can't, or refuse to, understand the impact of their actions. If you've got kids you'll know the anger they can cause in you when they respond to a challenge over bad behaviour with a shrug. Imagine if that is a rapist doing that. My boss walked out an interview with a rapist, because it was that or lose his job.

A friend of mine's mother was next-door neighbor to the Green River Killer for years, and never suspected a thing. They aren't as obvious as you might think. Perhaps someone who lived with them every day might be able to tell, but even there, I'd have my doubts.

Given that your story isn't a character study of serial killers and rapists, studying their motivations and what drives their behavior, the easiest answer (IMO) would be to simply not focus on that part of them. Introduce them as pitiful, suffering people and they'll automatically be sympathetic, and the sympathy won't vanish when you reveal their pasts.

You could check out Repo The Genetic Opera.

The two comic relief characters are Luigi Largo, a serial killer, and Pavi Largo, a rapist. They're both pulled off rather well (although admittedly, Pavi is never shown raping anyone on screen). Try using them as reference.

edited 8th Apr '12 1:39:08 PM by CJCroen1393

Perhaps in some flashbacks, either one of them could be shown to have gone to counselling of their own free will. Perhaps a strong-willed therapist repeatedly holding them accountable would help get past initial automatic rationales. Perhaps whichever bad man would then, while not feeling outright remorse, start getting tired of whatever he was doing and think that stopping it would be far more beneficial for him.

Perhaps as they degenerate further and further, they say something like: Even if I could stop this, everyone would just shank me. I don't know what's wrong with me and I don't know how to get better. Perhaps someone like me doesn't even deserve to know. I flushed my ticket to life and what's complaining going to do?

If you aren't going to show them as repentant, show them as close as someone with extremely diminished capacity for guilt can be to regret. Have them acknowledge the fact they just can't summon up feelings of guilt even if they properly wanted to and that they are now internally voids where all their previous glee has been sucked in and dissolved. Show how lacking in self-respect they are and how they deep down don't believe they are important people at all. Show how they resign to their fates and 'if I was to meet someone I've hurt, I sure wait for it to be unpleasant, this time for me'.

As for the doctor, make him tons more nasty than these three characters. Aside from what he does to the main characters, I think it would help if you hint, imply or show at him being, in many other areas of his life as well, extremely despicable and/or chilling in one way or another.

The rapist would be tough, though the two routes for the serial killer that come to mind are: Make him The Woobie to justify why he is a serial killer or make all of his victims really, really unlikable, which is pretty much how Death Note and Dexter handle it.

Note that the original poster has been banned, so I'm not sure necro'ing this thread is all that useful. I'm going to lock it.