Beware The Batman

I'm sure we'll get another Superman series around the debut of the Man of Steel movie.

Yeah, Superman's all like "Puny mortals! Nothing can hurt...Oh god! Is that a green rock?"

Batman at least has to earn his supper.

Hardly. We've all seen Batman miraculously solve problems that, by all rights, he should have no business interfering in solely because the writer suddenly decides that he's just that good. He's every bit as overpowered as people constantly declare Supes to be because his "powers" have even far fewer limits. Even when he's paired with guys far more qualified for the specific field he's working with, he still gets to outclass people for the nebulous excuses that he's had time to prepare". Add that to the same old stories and endless angst and you've got something that gets painfully dull if overused.

Supes, despite what some people think, works damn hard to do what needs to be done without compromising his morals and loses quite often without writers dragging out the Kryptonite clutch. He's only boring when he's poorly written. I'm far more interested in Lex Luthor's schemes than more generic Joker craziness.

Bats is a great character, but he's overused to the point where it seems DC completely forgets anybody besides him can accomplish anything.

This is silly, you're silly.

Superman's awesome.

Superman can be awesome in the hands of a writer who knows what they're doing.

Anyone who claims otherwise has not read All Star Superman.

Superman has been done well. Fact is, Batman has been done better.

I've never understood it when people say they like Batman more than Superman because Superman's too powerful. The standard argument is that if you're reading a story where you're bored because of Superman's powers, that's the fault of the writer, but the flipside of that is also true: If you truly believe that Batman's going to lose because someone wrote down that he's a "normal human," then you're unclear on how the concept of fiction works.

You know what else I suddenly want? A worlds finest series. Each episode they hang out and bro down to do some crime fighting.

edited 17th Oct '11 12:44:16 PM by NowhereMan

I'd go for another Justice League, myself.

I'd go for a Flash show in the DCAU - Flash and Substance really made me wish DCAU Flash and his Rogues Gallery got more focus.

Well, we've sort of gotten that with Young Justice for now.

and I'd love to see a Wonder Woman cartoon. Athough I think that Lauren Faust is already making something like that now...

edited 17th Oct '11 1:31:15 PM by dmysta3000

I'd go for literally any non Batman DC franchise just for the sake of variety, but I was kind of the subject of Superman/Batman.

I'd rather see one centered on The Joker and Lex Luthor.

Superman isn't really any worse than Batman, but he's certainly harder to write, especially in a long run. Make him too powerful and he's mostly boring (All Star Superman could pull it off because Grant Morrison is a genius, but very few writers are). Make him less powerful and people will whine about how he's too weak (like it happened to Superman The Animated Series).

I've mostly learned to filter it as "I don't really understand why Batman appeals to me more than Superman, so I'll just pull out a stock argument."

Superman and Batman were inherently created with different mindsets in mind. Superman was supposed to wow you by doing amazing feats, Batman was supposed to intrigue you by solving mysteries. As they went on this got diluted somewhat.

I have the same feeling too, Dantes. The people who keeps saying: "Superman is much more boring than Batman" have obviously never read a single Superman comic (or at least one that worths reading) and just follows the masses.

On the subject of a Superman animated show, I will just post my opinion from another thread:

edited 17th Oct '11 5:03:52 PM by Nightwire

Whoops,sorry about that,coulda' sworn someone referenced The Dark Knight here already,wrong thread.

Though BTAS still owes a lot to '89,I'll agree in this context it is influential. For better(Taking animation to a darker tone,good villainous laughs from Mark Hamill) and for worse (Making sure every vilain in the phonebook has a Tear Jerker backstory. Thank goodness The Batman fixed that error)

Although it is amazing how disproportionate the amount Batman their is against Superman.

Lets see

Batman

• 1943 serial
• 1949 serial
• Adam West series (1966)
• Adventures of Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder
• Other Filmation stuff
• Superfriends
• 1989 film series 2 of them
• 1995 reboot with Val Kilmer and it's ill-fated sequel
• DCAU (4 shows)
• Mystery of the Batwoman
• The Batman
• The Dark Knight Saga (3 films)
• Brave and the Bold
• Under the Red Hood

Now this

Superman

• The above mentioned serials
• the 1950's series
• Superfriends
• Superman: The Movie and its 3 That means SupermanReturns is the third
• DCAU (3 shows)
• Man of Steel

Probably missed a few,but you can tell how disproportionate it is. Even a casual watcher like myself sees more Batman than Superman.

Even Marvel is better at balancing things out,even with Wolverine Publicity going on. That said it could just be more like that today for the sake of The Avengers movie coming out soon.But I ve seen plenty Spiderman,Hulk,Captain America,X-MEN,Fantastic Four,even with Wolverine taking over.With DC it seems its all Batman.

But once again I do not know much about all this,except that I'm tired of Batman

edited 18th Oct '11 6:04:20 PM by terlwyth

B:TAS was a very definitive work for Batman as a whole. I think its acceptable to say its the most definitive Batman work. It definitely had the most definitive Joker.

Not sure if serious...

Batman The Animated Series is (arguably) the definitive animated Batman work. Notice how the 89 movie is not animated, and we're discussing animated adaptations here.

Regarding Man of Steel vs. Superman The Movie, well, we won't know either way until Man of Steel is released! You can't make any posterity judgements on a movie that hasn't had even a single second of footage shown yet.

edited 18th Oct '11 3:59:47 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

How is The tim Burton movie more influential than the Adam West Series? I mean pretty everything that defines The movie came from '66. Nicholson's Joker is a Romero rip-off anyway. He's evil, but not enough Laughably Evil to really round him out.

What's next? Thinking Superman the movie was more influential than the Superman Theatrical Cartoons?

edited 18th Oct '11 5:22:06 PM by NowhereMan

Nevermind.

edited 18th Oct '11 6:08:58 PM by Nightwire

terlwyth, if you have something new to say, it's better to make a new post rather than editing over an old one. Otherwise it just gets buried.

also getting rid of things after other people have remarked on them makes you an Orwellian Editor.

What? Nicholson Joker never had a Tear Jerker backstory. He was a complete jerk and vicious killer long before suffering his accident.

Also, better what TAS did and giving every villain a tragic background than what TB and even BTBATB did and having villains as flat cardboard figures. The Batman world is a tragedy one; it makes sense both its heroes and villains have tragedies moving them on.

I disagree. Too many tragic backstories muddies the pool and makes it so that none of them stand out much. It also starts to get corny and implausible.

That being said, I can't see the claim that B:TAS overdid it. Outside of Mr. Freeze and Mad Hatter (who was only questionably tragic, since he brought it on himself), nobody else really has a "tear jerker backstory."

Two-Face counts on my book. Also Baby-Doll to some degree.

edited 18th Oct '11 7:24:10 PM by NapoleonDeCheese