A thread to discuss electric vehicles and hybrid technology. No politics, please.
Technology, commercial aspects and marketing are all on-topic.
- Companies (e.g. Tesla Inc.) are only on-topic when discussing their electric vehicle products and research, not their wider activities. The exception is when those wider activities directly impact (or are impacted by) their other business areas - e.g. if electric vehicle development is cut back due to losses in another part of the business.
- Technology that's not directly related to electric vehicles (e.g. general battery research) is off-topic unless you're discussing how it might be used for vehicles.
- If we're talking about individuals here, that should only be because they've said or done something directly relevant to the topic. Specifically, posts about Tesla do not automatically need to mention Elon Musk. And Musk's views, politics and personal life are firmly off-topic unless you can somehow show that they're relevant to electric cars.
Also, posting this late, so sorry for any misspellings I might have left in there.
(Mod edited to replace original post)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 4:14:39 PM
Face Time
Speaking of magnetic induction, the writer for Road & Track's "Tech Tidbits" column mentioned that Rare Earths are not necessary since we could just build induction motors or something to that effect.
^Well, the Nissan Leaf and Fisker Karma have solar panels on their roofs, I think.
edited 12th Oct '11 8:31:08 PM by RocketDude
"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
NOT THE BEES
One thing to consider is that until we get our power grid off coal, transitioning to electric cars and moving the energy load there may actually be more harmful than staying on gasoline :|
I remember doing some research a couple years ago on a vanadium boride battery model that winds up having a greater energy density than gasoline. Even if it is a good deal heavier it would probably come somewhat close to a tank of gas in distance. The downshot is it's morbidly toxic if it breaks for whatever reason.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Meh, it could accelerate a transition to sustainable, what with the fuel companies losing a demand for oil products. I imagine that's how it will pan out anyway, eventually...with the old oil companies going green.
edited 12th Oct '11 9:47:36 PM by sketch162000
This foreboding is fa...
False. Even if all the extra power generation came from coal it would still produce less CO 2, and possibly less other waste, than a fleet of cars.
The reason for this is very simple: central power generation is more efficient, both in terms to usage and capturing emissions, than small distributed power generation, i.e. internal combustion engines.
Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
NOT THE BEES
Eh, fair enough. I'd like to see numbers to confirm it, but it makes enough sense that I won't bother to argue.
One of the hidden problems with implementing electric is that you're going to be screwing over rural areas for a good long while. Most of the cars are parked on open streets instead of garages and stuff, and you can't exactly have outlets just sitting exposed in a high-rain area with wildlife chewing on everything in sight.
edited 12th Oct '11 10:45:19 PM by Pykrete
Well, people already have outlets on the outside of their houses and animals won't trouble sufficiently thick or easily replaceble cables. Another idea I've heard is battery swapping...that at the filling station you simply swap out your dead batteries instead of recharging them.
edited 12th Oct '11 10:55:25 PM by sketch162000
NOT THE BEES
Battery swapping is nice for long trips, but not really a solution for domestic recharge. Those things are like 100 pounds of solid metal. I mean, my mother has back problems. I've lived in six-floor apartment complexes with no elevator. My grandmother is 70 and lives on a farmhouse with a long footpath between the driveway and front door. I don't even want to think about that shit.
EDIT: Oh, you said at the station. It's decent for that and you can have the staff do it if you happen to be disabled or whatever.
edited 12th Oct '11 11:11:48 PM by Pykrete
Just to point out about the range thing: Tesla Motor's range claims are well in excess of 100 miles and relatively fast charging for most purposes since it's easy to top off at your house,.
Model S
Tesla Roadster
Source: Wikipedia
edited 12th Oct '11 11:25:04 PM by Balmung
This foreboding is fa...
One would assume that the more efficient batteries of the future necessary for electric cars would also be lighter.
Probably.
Also, the statistic I heard was effectively 1/3 the level of emissions from cars as from central generation, even if all the central generation plants were coal fired plants. I have no idea where I read that or how long ago, so a mountain of salt should be taken.
Someone here in town drives a Roadster, somewhat odd considering how small it is. I can only assume they're a former graduate making mad $$$ as an Engineer.
Lucky bastard.
edited 12th Oct '11 11:34:47 PM by deathjavu
Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
Indiana Solo
Nice. The Tesla's are my favorite EV out now. The others are alright, but its the coolest out.
NOT THE BEES
Probably.
Miniaturizing moving components is one thing. Miniaturizing energy density (physical property) is quite another.
Indiana Solo
This foreboding is fa...
Increasing the energy density is exactly what they're trying to do with battery technology.
I don't understand what you're saying. That batteries can't increase in energy density?
Batteries increasing in energy density has been one of the primary advances in the field of miniaturizing electronic devices. There have been and there almost certainly will continue to be advances in that field.
Lithium Ion batteries. Need I say more?
edited 13th Oct '11 6:14:33 PM by deathjavu
Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
That's what they're using. Thing is, they make more and more heat when they discharge, which is also a problem.
edited 13th Oct '11 6:22:05 PM by Balmung
NOT THE BEES
Of course they're doing what they can (and lithium ion has terrible
energy density — it's one of the reasons I brought up the VB2 cell earlier [1]). Just saying that it's a task rather less simple than miniaturizing a macroscopic object, because the target characteristics are already taking place on a molecular level.
edited 13th Oct '11 11:39:36 PM by Pykrete
Indiana Solo
Why not use that heat to heat the inside of the car? that way it's not an issue.
This foreboding is fa...
Li Ion batteries were an improvement over the Ni Cd batteries that had come before in terms of energy density, which was my point- they can and have improved energy density drastically in the recent past.
There are so many companies gunning for better batteries every day I have no doubt they'll find viable, superior improvements/alternatives to L Ion soon enough. I mean, they've already found superior energy density, they just need to make it viable for use.
Look, you can't make me speak in a logical, coherent, intelligent bananna.
Face Time
^^Probably because EV batteries are large things. Plus, the heating probably isn't as efficient.
"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
Also because overheated batteries can catch fire or explode, so you need a means to cool them, especially if you get into much higher energy densities than lithium-ion and lithium-polymer batteries.
Indiana Solo
They have cooling systems in most. I know the chevy volt does. It'd be good to use that heat instead of just putting it out.
I'm baaaaaaack
Face Time
Oh yeah, this video mentions the documentary Revenge of the Electric Car, the sequel to Who Killed the Electric Car?
Specifically, the guy in the video, Leo Parente, talks about how auto brands disconnect performance from pushing this kind of tech. The gripe he has is that there are electric and hybrid race cars such as the electric LMP-1 car in development.
Felt like mentioning this.
edited 21st Oct '11 10:04:45 PM by RocketDude
"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel
Guess what car will be going electric?!
http://laughingsquid.com/electric-delorean-to-be-released-in-2013/
The fusion powered version will be a little while longer it seems.
I changed accounts.
Oh ma gawd I want it. 0_0
I'd really like to see improvments in solar technology so it'd be really worthwhile to put a solar pannel on a electric car. right now, eh. You'd get a few extra miles outta it and you could recharge, slowly, anywhere so you couldn't get stuck. Butits not highly effective for recharging.
I'm baaaaaaack