Is it possible to be too ambitious to get menial jobs?

This is a question that naturally comes up after several failed attempts to get hired since finishing high school close to 2 years ago. Being someone who'd rather be in art school than wasting time flipping burgers, I find it hard to not look at any unrelated job as a stepping stone that will eventually get me where I want. The problem is that these employers seem to expect you to be as passionate about mopping floors, and seem to want to use you to make money as long as possible. Thus, you have to be decent at giving the (false?) impression that you'll stick around and are willing to learn whatever it is your doing.

Now, one thing that catches my interest is this; at the nearby art school, I told my admissions counselor, a few students and a professor that I didn't look for a job all last year because I'd rather be going to that school. I got praise for that, though the only way for me to get in was to work for a year. Then, at every single interview I managed to get, when the question of why I needed/wanted the job came up, I state my goals, one of them being to get into said art school in 1 or 3 years. The interviews all go straight to hell, with the most recent saying that I'm too ambitious and better off applying for schools rather than Mc Donald's.

Well, what do you think? And, how did you deal with this problem?

edited 10th Sep '11 5:39:34 PM by redandblack64

Shut up and take a menial job.

It will be good for you.

Hey man, I finished college and am working at a job that only requires a high school diploma. Still awesome to have it, and I've been searching for a better one for years now. If you can get into Mc Donald's, that'll have to do. At least it's experience that can be applied to the future.

-Keeps getting turned down to jobs at Mcdonalds-

You take the next job you get.

I worked at Wal Mart for two and a half years pushing carts. And I did a damn good job, dealing with horrible managers, mostly lazy co-workers, and disgusting, ungrateful customers. Now that I quit because I had to move for college, I feel awful and would gladly take the job back because I'm realizing how much time I have to waste and how little money I have.

Menial jobs are great. Just be good at them. Quit being pretentious and thinking you're too good for them.

Well, doing odd jobs more or less related to your chosen career path can help you scratch by.

I'm a sysadmin. I used to code websites and fix computers for a living. 'T least you're working under the table, so Uncle Sam doesn't get its cut.

If you want to get in art school, well, design artwork for commercial websites, draw a webcomic, or something like that. It doesn't make much money, but sometimes it's enough to pay for vices.

Actually, what do you mean by pretentious? My individual problem is being too honest in those interviews, as I failed to tell them what they wanted to hear rather than the truth. As far as I can see, job givers want to USE you to make a profit. Ambitious, selfish individuals aren't very useful in that regard, because they'll quit as soon as they can.

Look at it this way: You're asking the prospective employer to spend time and energy training you and fitting you into an already set-up operation. You may say "Well, pah, how much trouble is that?" The answer is "Enough that they don't want to bother if they know that you're going to leave soon." If you walk into an interview and tell him flat out that you're only planning on staying for a year, you're telling him that that time and effort will be a waste. If he wanted a temp, he'd be hiring temps.

edited 10th Sep '11 6:18:32 PM by Madrugada

So, what exactly does a college student who doesn't intend to work at Mc Donald's all his life do in order to get a job at Mc Donald's for long enough to fund college (and, incidentally, avoid having to work at Mc Donald's all his life?)

edited 10th Sep '11 6:34:16 PM by feotakahari

..pretend that you want to work in Mcdonald's all your life so you can get into Mcdonald's?

I was actually in the same situation as well, but now I'm working temp jobs until I can get myself back into college next year.

edited 10th Sep '11 6:39:39 PM by Jauce

Menial jobs like mcdonalds have very low cost for training and operation in relation to workers. What they are telling is gold plated horse shit. They need to just stop being bad liars and hire honestly.

Honestly these days it is better to fudge if not outright lie in some limited capacity because employers don't play by the rules outside of a few honest ones.

Say you wanna advance to management. Even in menial jobs you can show ambition.

generally, the golden rule with any "menial" employer is to lie your ass off. All they want to hire is a perfect model employee that doesnt exist.

@Madrugada: Heard that one at least 4 times. The obvious solution is to either lie about that or look for a fitting job.

@feotakahari: Don't they just take out loans? I can't get away with that, which is the reason why I'm job hunting. One thing I've heard is that some use college as a means to stave off the real world for a few more years, job included, just like in high school.

edited 11th Sep '11 10:55:50 AM by redandblack64

Don't tell them that you're planning on leaving in a year.

And Teuf, just because it doesn't cost them as much to train at McDonalds as it does other places doesn't mean that the manager of McDonalds wants to throw that training time and money away.

edited 10th Sep '11 7:12:41 PM by Madrugada

Point is. Nobody ever wants to work at mcdonalds forever. ergo lying ftw.

Maddie; They make up the cost in less then two weeks. That sort of logic just doesn't wash. Short of skilled labor of any variety I am not buying that response from any employer.

I don't undertand your problem OP, just don't tell them your plans to move on at the interview.

I think lying in the interview is rather underhanded and unethical. You are, after all, basically taking advantage of them. "This job isn't good enough for me, but I still need you to get to where I want to be."

I'd be mad, if I were a business owner...

I know what he (she?) talking about; I'd advise you to get a job as a placeholder, DON'T TELL YOUR EMPLOYER THIS IF YOU WANT TO EVER GET HIRED, and in the meantime, do things that work towards realizing your ambitions. Once you are able to, leave. Your career is ultimately more important than your employer's; don't worry, if it's a menial job, you're replaceable.

So self-interest justifies being an asshat? Great thinking, that.

I mean, if you came to me and were honest in saying "yeah, I need a short-term job to pay for college," I'd probably go and see if we had some job like that. It's not like all job owners are jerks. But lying and taking advantage of the resources and effort it would take for them to train you only for you to walk away in a year or two? Dick move, that.

edited 10th Sep '11 9:34:34 PM by USAF713

Teuf, they may make up the cost in less than two weeks, but that doesn't mean that they want to deliberately hire people who aren't going to stick around.

I was fairly honest with my boss, but the "training" takes ten hours and is entirely done on a computer. The rest is whether or not you can handle eight hours standing in a parking lot lifting heavy things.

It's a dickish world we live in. I'd argue that you not having a job is ultimately worse than a company having to unexpectedly fill a menial position, with so many others lining up to get jobs. Speaking as someone who was looking for work for a long time (not anymore, thankfully), I know that the damage done to you for not having work is worse than the damage done to the company trying to fill your position.

It's better to lie, have a paycheck while you work on your career, and move on, than it is to look for work, being completely honest, and struggle to find anything. If you do find a job where you can say that in an interview and not have it count against you, great, but most employers will not hire someone who will need to leave the job for whatever reason when compared to someone who will be a reliable asset.

Still, that's ten hours they could have put towards someone who would at least last awhile.

Nobody is entitled to a job. Lying to get one, therefore, is downright jackass-ish. Just because you have big plans for yourself doesn't put you above everyone else...

And yet, if you are honest with me, I'd, as a hypothetical business owner, would at least try to find you an appropriate position. Conversely, lying would just get you a scathing "reference" later on.

Just because everyone does it doesn't mean you have to think it's right and do it yourself. And just because you can doesn't mean you should...

edited 10th Sep '11 9:41:46 PM by USAF713