Planning a battle

I am going to write a story for my friend. I have a concept, characters etc, but I need one thing before I start writing.

A battle. A big battle between two kingdoms - one steampunky, the other magical.The magical will win, but with big losses.

The problem is that I need to plan it first. It should be believable, it should feel it flows like a battle would really flow. But I am no strategist. I do not know how to balance the sides (they should be quite equal), what type of terrain should I choose (A plain? Something more interesting?), how to best position different type of units etc. etc. etc.

Is there anyone around here who could offer some help in these matters and/or some resources?

edited 2nd Sep '11 12:44:26 PM by Dracia

OK, let's start with the basics.

What are the means for each side to fight? Do they use swords? Cannons? ORBITAL SPACE STATIONS THAT SHOOT STEAM OR MAGIC RAYS?

After this, we then need to know the reason for them to go to battle. (Is it an invasion? Or is it a common dispute?)

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Mostly normal medieval infantry with pikes/swords and archers/crossbowmen. But magical side has powerful but easy to tire (or squish) mages and stempunky one has steam tanks. Or something like that. Slow but well armored and quite powerful. But the case is still open - as I said I want the sides to be quite equal.

As for a reason to fight... Steampunk kingdom has always been the more powerful of two - until around twenty years ago when new king inherited the throne and proven to be a man feverishly devoted to his duty. Under his reign the magic kingdom flourished in all aspects. The steampunk kingdom started to fear about it's position in the world, various factions in magic kingdom stared to whisper that would be good to finally expand it's borders after ages. Tension have been raising for a long time...

Both sides claim that the other attacked first.

Steampunk space stations...FUND IT.

"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."

~looks at de-funded NASA~

DAMMIT!

What is the reasoning for the steampunk people losing? Inferior leadership or numbers? Poor quality training or equipment? General incompetence? Etc.

How do you counter magic, too?

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Aardvark regiment of Pike from Magiclandia on the grassy knoll face off Badger regiment of Swords from Punklandia. Corporal Bozdeas knows that we have the advantage and wants to make Adele his girlfriend proud.

Sergeant Chang is scared. Parts of the plains are level ground, parts are marsh. Colonel Dave sent out spies.

The Badger regiment are faceless mooks.

Colonel Evan of Punklandia's artillery Regiment face-offs the Magiclandian fusileer Regiments. Make the fusileers facless mooks and the Punkers people.

Liberty! Equality! Fraternity!

Just tap two islands and there you go.

@Dracia: Got it. So, in another words, it's the steampunk empire attacking the wizard republic in order to expand but saying that they are fighting because the other one attacked first, correct?

"My life is my own" | If you want to contact me privately, please ask first on the forum.

I'd recommend reading some books on military strategy. The general concepts will work no matter what techology or magic is in use.

A brighter future for a darker age.

I don't know about that, Morven...

I am now known as Flyboy.

The Short List of Things Every Commander Wants

Numerical Superiority: It's basically everything. It vastly expands your options because you can be in more places, doing more things. To a great extent all tactics is based around creating local superiority of numbers. (Note the "local", which means "at the point of contact" rather than in general.)

Surprise: Surprise exists in the mind; it is not a physical thing, and therefore one of the most ephemeral and difficult to use advantages. Things that should not seem surprising at all can be; things that should seem surprising often aren't. Ideally a commander will wish to strike in place not expected, or to conceal the bulk of his defense so that the enemy will mistakenly strike where he is strong. Surprise can also be forced; this is the doctrine behind blitzkrieg, which accrues the effect of surprise by having the enemy reacting to step two of your plan as you execute step seven.

Mobility: Being able to run towards, or away, from the sound of battle is one of the most basic skills a soldier requires. Any army that can move faster than its enemies can chose its battles and more importantly chose to quit when things do not look good. On the tactical scale, being more mobile grants the ability to manuever: to dictate the ground on which the battle will be fought and the directions of advance and retreat, to outflank the enemy or force them into poor positions. Which leads to...

Position: Position boils down to giving yourself and advantage and putting the enemy at a disadvantage. Elevated position (hills and ridges) is the classic example. You can see farther, you're harder to get to, and you have the advantage of moving downhill when counterattacking. There are other forms; forcing the enemy to come at you in small numbers via a choke point, or to struggle through a river or a swamp. Even a simple forest can wreak havoc on the ability of an army to keep its units together and coordinated. Some terrain will be impassable to vehicles or horses, neutralizing the advantages of armor for the period. Some will simply be impassible, and therefore nobody can attack you from it.

As a secondary comment, at this point in time it's important to note commanders actually have rather minimal control of the battle. They will be handicapped by their primitive tools for communicating with their units, so orders will be delayed or not received, and units will often do things without orders because the situation around them doesn't appear to pertain to what they were originally told to do and a commander will have a hell of a time getting them back into formation before the wreck the plan. (The magic guys might be able to get around this.)

Nous restons ici.

Even today, with all the communication and observation technologies armies have, confusion is a big part of warfare.

A brighter future for a darker age.

If this is a pretty much medieval setting (even with steam punk elements), remember that units, mostly knights, would often ignore their commanders and charge straight at the enemy in hopes of being heroic- that was the main way of advancement at the time, after all.

Keep in mind weaknesses/strengths- knights were mainly shock troops that could carve a hole through unprepared infantry, but were countered with spear formations, especially things like Scottish schiltrons. Archers could break up schiltrons, making them easy pickings for other infantry or strong cavalry. Many spearmen units were drafted peasants, meant to be expendable on the battlefield, maybe stop a cavalry charge if they were lucky. Not sure what I can tell you about mages/tanks. Terrain and position were extremely important at the time.

That's just the basics, but hoped that helped a bit.

Also, if you haven't, you might want to play Medieval 2 Total War sometimes. It presents a somewhat accurate battlefield experience; it can get your juices flowing and give you ideas.

edited 2nd Sep '11 7:43:13 PM by gentlemanorcus

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Keep in mind which kinds of troops work well against others.

In a Renaissance context, it goes something like this:

• Cavalry > standard infantrymen (probably with a spear or halberd)
• Pikemen > cavalry
• Zweihander infantry > pikemen

And then you have endless variations concerning weirder troop types, or things that would just happen. Knights preferred to be cavalry, for instance, but they might get dismounted or choose not to ride a horse. In that context, they'd be closer to zweihander infantry (despite not technically wielding zweihanders). The Spanish were quite fond of rapiers in battle, although I'm not exactly sure how they employed them.

Guns will ruin everyone, but are too slow and unreliable to influence the battle moreso than another troop type (depending on the conditions). Lots of gunmen of the era would be poorly trained in close combat, since they were commoners with the minimum amount of training required to perform their role in combat. So anyone would shred 'em. Some cavalry used pistols in what were essentially drive-by shooting actions, too.

In terms of Medieval stuff, it's more like

• Cavalry > everyone

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Antimagic fields ^^.

Some good decisions made by Magic's commanders. But I need to know something about tactics before I will know what descisions it will be.

I should use it somewhere someday.

Hm. Nope. I am still thinking which one attacked first. But I think I will go for Magic attacking first because they knew that Steampunk will attack sooner or later thinking that I'd be good to get rid of potential danger before it gets too poweful.

Do you know any? Are there any freeware one? Does anyone know where to look for them? Should they be just in library?

It won't hurt, I will surely try it.

Any ideas what heavey steampunk vehicles would do to such battlefield?

They'd probably act as battle tanks, or at the very least as platforms for cannons. They could also be used as transports so the men are fresh and rested for combat.

Sun Tzu's the Art of War would be the obvious place to start with military strategy. Incredibly interesting book.

edited 3rd Sep '11 3:51:02 AM by MadassAlex

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Armored cavalry writ large. They can easily break a formation of pikes beneath their treads, meaning that even the best defensive line is really no match. They're slower than real cavalry but probably faster than walking, and unlike most they can attack uphill without it making a noticeable difference to how effective they are.

On the other hand they lack the weight and power to push through forests, and they're too heavy to deal with deep mud, any noticeable depth of water might drown out their engines...

And they have boilers because they're steampunk. Early boilers. The sort that if they are damaged or even if the crew isn't paying absolute attention can explode.

Nous restons ici.

You really should be doing that in reverse. Set up the battle, then figure out how they win. The only thing you can really say is "this side is going to win" before you set it up. Saying why before you do is... a bad idea...

How hard is it to set up anti-magic field-y things?

I am now known as Flyboy.

True ^^"".

Quite hard. It's an advanced technology for them.

edited 3rd Sep '11 8:42:27 AM by Dracia

Hm... if it could be hidden, it would make for a really good trap...

Wouldn't the steampunk guys be more mobile? I.e. tank battalions, etc. How advanced are they over the magic guys?

I am now known as Flyboy.

How important a factor are these tanks? Do they even out with wizards, or were they the unbeatable linebreakers that ensured the steampunk's dominance?

The battle can happen in multiple ways. Perhaps the two armies met on a conveniently large field, like medieval battles sometimes did. Or it was a game of cat-and-mouse with armies maneuvering over a theatre of operations until one caught the other cut off from the reinforcements. The last thing would surely count as "good decisions". Perhaps it's been a rainy day and it's too muddy for tanks; or the opposite, the summer is exceptionally hot and they overheat.

Concerning books on military strategy — Clausewitz, de Jomini, Sun Tzu, all these guys are public domain.

Edit: and if it is meant to be serious... wait a minute... The word "tank" shouldn't be used without an explanation why they're named after a water container. But I reckon nobody'd raise a fuss about naming after a crawl.

edited 3rd Sep '11 8:38:56 AM by lordGacek

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

"Battle tortoise".

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch

Now tortoise, that's a name that might work.

"Atheism is the religion whose followers are easiest to troll"

Just to be precise - I am not sure about these tanks. I am just looking for some steampunky thing to balance the magic-users.

Well, we need to know how the magic and the steampunk society works.

For example, if putting up a magic Deflector Shield is tiring for a mage, the tanks could circle-strafe and keep firing on it until it falls... and then blow the Squishy Wizard people to hell, since I'm under the assumption that they're squishy in the face of large-bore tank weaponry...

I am now known as Flyboy.

You could make magic unpredictable and liable to turn on the user, like in Warhammer Fantasy. One of the balancing factors in that setting is that channeling more magic than you know how to use will always end horribly.

Swordsman Troper — Reclaiming The Blade — Watch