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Not at all. It accommodates a pacifist, diplomatic playstyle. Are you saying it's a bad thing for the game to allow you to play it as you wish?

Well, not really, but it perhaps doesn't make quite as much sense when you butcher all the other guys and then talk the leader down.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

edited 28th Aug '11 4:50:06 PM by Myrmidon

Kill all math nerds

Erm... talking can be part of a game! After all, talking in games lends to choice boxes, and choices are an important part of gameplay as far as I'm concerned.

edited 28th Aug '11 3:43:33 PM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!

You still have the option of sneaking past the mooks, tanking with power armor, knocking them out with non lethal weapons, or just running like a mad man.

And even if you do slaughter all of them it still makes sense. You negotiate with generals; you mow down privates that attack you. The Legate doesn't immediately attack you, so it would still make sense if you use violence only in self-defense, or as a last resort.

^^What about Alpha Protocol (where you can gain reputation with people, which affects more critical stuff) or Deus Ex Human Revolution?

^Yeah, but you could reduce the body count by just having the leader come out first instead of having to slaughter his forces beforehand.

edited 28th Aug '11 3:43:49 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

edited 28th Aug '11 4:50:11 PM by Myrmidon

Kill all math nerds

It's attitude like that and not your opinions that make you look like a troll.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!

Question: why does choosing which dialog choices to select not count as gameplay?

For that matter, what does qualify as gameplay?

edited 28th Aug '11 3:44:59 PM by lrrose

You are playing a game where you select dialog options to negotiate with an enemy.

Your entire reaction to the game can be explained by the fact that you clearly don't like RP Gs. This is perfectly fine but it discredits you when you criticize them for being good examples of role-playing when you expected an action-adventure game.

Not sure who you're referring to, but I think gameplay qualifies as anything which lets you manipulate something in a game.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!

^^Well, look at it this way:

System Shock: Dungeon Crawler-type of game like Ultima Underworld.

System Shock 2: RPG-FPS hybrid.

Bioshock: FPS with RPG Elements.

Bioshock 2: Similar story as the first.

edited 28th Aug '11 3:47:57 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

edited 28th Aug '11 4:50:19 PM by Myrmidon

Kill all math nerds

I personally like games like Deus Ex that blend story and gameplay.

However, I also like games like Team Fortress 2 that use Supplemental Material to do the heavy lifting with setting, plot and such.

And, of course, I like Half Life, with it's "Everything is going to hell around you"-type of narrative.

edited 28th Aug '11 3:51:05 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

That would have been awesome if the game had some sort of scenario that allowed for that, but it was pretty rushed and since most people are going to go around slaughtering everything left and right, they probably gave the diplomatic path low priority.

Still, how it is justified is up to the player.

By your logic, board games and parlor games are not games.

Many of them involve nothing but talking, after all.

I am become Death, Destroyer of Miniputts.

x7 So I take it that you believe that selecting dialog choices does count as gameplay since it allows players to manipulate the game?

Anyway, while you can talk down the final boss of New Vegas, doing so requires 100 points invested in speech. In the vanilla version of New Vegas*

, the limited amount of skill points you get means that getting 100 Speech means that you probably won't be as effective in combat as a character that does not.

edited 28th Aug '11 3:53:45 PM by lrrose

^Well, unless you find Skill Books to raise Speech, I believe.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

There aren't many skill books in New Vegas. Although with magazines and a perk you only need 80 Speech. Which is still 80 skill points that aren't being invested in a combat category.

Are you talking to me or Mammalsauce?

edited 28th Aug '11 3:56:41 PM by Folt

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!

You.

FF 1 is a JRPG. It's a very classic JRPG, but it's still a very different genre from Fallout.

The 'keeping the story in the background' thing is impossible in a CRPG, because storyline and gameplay are tightly intertwined.

Once again, it's okay if you don't like the genre, but you are complaining about the same things that fans of the genre celebrate. I don't watch a political drama and complain about the lack of boobs and explosions, and you certainly shouldn't complain about an RPG being very good at what it's supposed to be doing.

Then I will answer with a "Yes". I count anything you can do to change things in a game to achieve an objective as gameplay.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!

@Myrmidon

I still fail to understand how using a dialogue option to get out of a boss fight is not part of gameplay. It affects the game world quite a bit and uses skills (as in the numbers, not as in actual skill the player earns) you acquired through gameplay to do so. That is still gameplay. For example, what about Planescape: Torment. The combat is awful. The writing and dialogue however, is wonderful, and you have a multitude of options to effect the world around you. Is that not gameplay?

edited 28th Aug '11 4:16:32 PM by YoungMachete

"Delenda est." "Furthermore, Carthage must be destroyed." -Common Roman saying at the end of speeches.

Dunno who you're referring to, but I think I have made myself clear on your subject with the above answer. However, I still think story is the least important aspect of a game.

Fantastic Supreme Überkaiser Emperor Folt of The Infinity and Beyond" ... "The First"!