Character-based title (Crowner closed Oct-25): The Wesley

Obviously, character-based trope names are out with the new self-explaining trope name policy. So, here goes something for a creator-favored, fan-loathed character: The Wesley.

Given that I know little about Star Trek (Wesley was from Star Trek, I assume?), the name wouldn't make sense to a first-time user without knowledge of Star Trek.

So, here's the verdict for the rename: Creator's Pet. (With punctuated link, of course.) For example and clarification, the "teacher's pet" is usually favored by the teacher and loathed by the others, fitting for a Wesley-type character. So, this one makes sense.

Should we go for it, or is this trope too entrenched to move?

Its objetively a bad name unfortunately the trope is too popular old to be changed (I wish we could change it however).

Make your hearth shine through the darkest night; let it transform hate into kindness, evil into justice, and loneliness into love.

I'd have to agree with the rename. The only Google result that actually had the same meaning was the one to the article itself. However, we could use a modified version of the name, like The Forced Fandom Of Wesley, which is akin to The Gwen Stacy being renamed to I Let Gwen Stacy Die.

edited 26th Aug '11 7:19:21 PM by MadMan400096

Catch me where? See my profile!

Misuse? Wick check? Underuse? It's an objectively bad name using our current standards, but we also don't generally change names that are working. This one has 922 wicks and nearly 25 thousand incoming, so it looks pretty extaordinarily healthy. I also have not seen it misused for the character much, which is the usual problem with these.

I think we should cut the existing redirect, which could only be misused for the character, and we should probably add some searchable redirects that describe the trope, but I'd need to see much stronger arguments before doing anything more.

Also, this is a YMMV trope, so it's relatively unimportant in the scheme of things.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Plus, I'm pretty sure we didn't name this. Pre-existing terms get a lot of weight.

Is there any objection to me taking the redirect, Wesley Crusher, straight to the cut list? Because that can only encourage misuse for the character himself.

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Pardon my presumptuousness, but I highly doubt that this is an established term for a creTor-favored/fandom-loathed character. I'm always happy to be proven wrong with these things though.

As for a redirect, Loved By Creator Hated By Fans (rendered as Loved By Creator, Hated By Fans). If nothing else, it's searchable.

Insert witty and clever quip here. My page, as the database hates my handle.

Kill it. I've never seen the redirect used at all, but there is at least some character named trope sinkholing going on here already, so having a redirect that is literally the Trope Namer's name cannot be a good idea.

edited 27th Aug '11 1:58:26 AM by nrjxll

If we can rename The Mario then we can also rename this.

Do remember that Star Trek TNG ended seventeen years ago. There's a whole generation of people who've never seen Wesley.

Rhetorical, eh? ... Eight!

The Mario had lots of misuse, mostly for Jack of All Trades, but also for the character. Nobody's shown any misuse here. The Mario objectively wasn't working. Nobody has shown that for The Wesley. Wick check, anyone?

Furthermore, Jack of All Stats is an actual trope, not an audience-reaction YMMV bit of pointless trivia. (Which is the main reason I cannot bring myself to care enough to do a wick check myself.)

edit: the redirect, Wesley Crusher, got cut, yay!

edited 28th Aug '11 2:37:03 PM by Xtifr

Speaking words of fandom: let it squee, let it squee.

Yeah that is nuts for a YMMV trope.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

The Libby was changed as well, but IIRC, that had not a lot of misuse. If we're renaming Tropes Of Legend, I guess this one can go too...Creator's Pet or Producers Pet.

That doesn't get the point across that said pet wasn't liked.

Sparkling and glittering! Jan-Ken-Pon!

This trope is huge. We probably want to have all the facts before we do anything about it.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

You might have made a misinterpretation somewhere along the line. If there's a ban on character-named tropes, it applies to future tropes. It's not a mandate to automatically rename any character-named trope that you dislike.

We didn't rename The Mario just because "character-based trope names are out". We did like a bajillion wick checks and turned up like 15% misuse or however much, I don't even remember, but there were issues with the wicks and that was what ultimately convinced people. Until then it was getting shot down real hard. So don't go getting the wrong idea, buster. The proof is in the pudding.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

Making assumptions about why people voted the way they did is lousy grounds for precedent. It's not worth arguing over. And believe me, I am sorely tempted.

You are correct in the crux of the matter; if there was any lesson to be learned from The Mario ordeal, it is certainly not "Character Named Tropes have a kill order on them". It was a long, long journey there from the first post to the thread being called, with a mind-boggling number of arguments and counters and counter-counters involved.

We don't rename things on the merit of "this is sort of like another trope that we ended up renaming". That's not how it works.

Pretentious quote || In-joke from fandom you've never heard of || Shameless self-promotion || Something weird you'll habituate to

The name is an example. It's not a misleading name. The name isn't being misused. The name isn't immediately obvious without reading it unless you are a nerd from the 1990s or are a Star Trek fan. Solution? Redirects are free. Doesn't need a rename. Creator's pet could work but that's a redirect for Shilling the Wesley for some reason.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

Creator's Pet should definitely be here rather than Shilling the Wesley.

Yeah, Creator's Pet definitely needs to be redirected to The Wesley rather than Shilling...it's the only thing I can think of that would be an acceptable rename option, but I'm perfectly fine with The Wesley.

But Creator's Pet doesn't really add the "hate"/"dislike" part, no?

Death is a companion. We should cherish Death as we cherish Life.

Not specifically, no, which is a definite problem.

As a redirect its fine though.

Creator's Pet definitely describes the character, not the action (said "shilling"), but the action is vital to note because one can't become The Wesley if they never shill you (otherwise, you just have The Scrappy).

Also, I'd argue that Creator's Pet does imply outside hatred. The term is based off of the phrase "teacher's pet," which was always a mocking term where I came from. It specifically indicated a kid that was noted for getting favored treatment from the teachers. (Side note: I got too much detention to ever get called one.)

For a new name for the shilling one... eh, I think Shilling The Creators Pet works just fine.

Reminder: Offscreen Villainy does not count towards Complete Monster.

"Teacher's Pet" and "The Wesley" share a lot in common.

Both characters are loved by the powers that be. Both characters are hated by their peers (and/or audience). Both characters are usually way BETTER than their peers at various tasks.

I think that "Creator's Pet" is an appropriate pun/term for this character without relying on an outdated reference.

Also, the actual character from Star Trek might not even be an example to some people. I've met people that like Wesley Crusher! A more generic term will define this type of character for everybody.

Shouldn't The Wesley belong to Darth Wiki ?

In the case of THE Wesley, there is little trouble in agreeing that the character was hated by everyone, even the actor whilst the creators loved him for some strange reason. But in most other cases, I think it sounds overly negative (and more appropriate for Darth Wiki) to have people calling The Wesley to any character they don't like and it seems that it has become the use for The Wesley in the wiki. The same happens to Shilling the Wesley as its name implies the character is The Wesley.

In the case of The Scrappy, I would think it is fine outside of Darth Wiki, because the trope only requires the character to have a hatedom, rather than be hated by everyone but the creators.

edited 6th Sep '11 6:30:53 PM by nabaduco