Harem: Total Definition

So I just found out that the definition of harem has just entered the realm of being generic and thus majorly unlikable, by many, that doesn't include me. The term generic harem has now the same status as moe shows. I have no idea what other people expect out of harem anime, and as a remedy for that I made this to gather everyone's definition of a harem show. As I remember on a dictionary, a harem is a group of girls made to entertain a Sultan or King.

For the record this is not a bickering thread: I just want your definition of what a harem show should be? We have tried that with the moe thread and, bang... er... thump.

edited 18th Aug '11 6:15:52 PM by djmaca

You are putting words in my mouth. I flat out said I consider Clannad and Hayate The Combat Butler to at the very least have a lot of harem elements and did not call them generic. I was attacking the opinion that a generic harem can really be considered a good story.

edited 18th Aug '11 6:15:58 PM by Arha

No no, we are looking for a genre here, not just elements that pop out randomly and stagnate in the air. Sure Hayate attracts girls, but do they chase the guy actively? And er.... you didn't define harem.

edited 18th Aug '11 6:21:21 PM by djmaca

Fine. We will assume the shonen demographic because I am not very familiar with shoujo. And yeah, the girls do tend to actively go after him. Nagi assumes she's won, Hinagiku is doing her tsundere thing, Nishizawa is doing her generic girl approach. Arc heroines Athena and Luca also actively approach Hayate. There are harem antics that generally involve girls who actually aren't going for him with any particular interest.

• Male protagonist. A generic harem has one with a passive personality and is largely unexceptional in all areas so that the audience can project themselves on to them. A more creative work will give them their own personality and drive. They will also have goals apart from just things involving the girls.
• The male protagonist has at least three beautiful girls around him. Five is more common.
  • These girls are usually, but not always, in love with the protagonist and highly devoted to him. None of them are dating anyone else.
  • The girls generally fall into set personality types with a large amount of tsunderes, childhood friends, and other well known personalities. I don't think I need to elaborate on this.
  • Body types generally fill the spectrum out of fetish fuel. Personalities often match appearance in well recognized ways
• Setting is almost always high school.
  • Settings may be based on high school aged characters but not involve the school
• Humor is generally divided into two categories
  • There is the basic Accidental Pervert stuff, jokes about the girls being jealous etc.
  • Lampshading and snark about the situation.
• Large degrees of fanservice. May become the focus of the show to the detriment of the story.
• Story often lacks a goal separate from the girls. Again, something I generally consider a bad thing.

When too many elements are combined in predictable ways without exploring new areas you end up with a generic harem anime that is at best mediocre.

edited 18th Aug '11 6:34:41 PM by Arha

No one called the harem genre generic. A generic harem anime != a harem anime.

A harem anime, by its base definition, is a show about a lead male that is surrounded by three or more females who are romantically interested in him. While normally in a high school setting, there are no real restrictions on setting in the harem genre.

A generic harem generally has a blank-slate protagonist; there is nothing remarkable about him in any particular. Re: Ordinary High-School Student. On the other hand, his harem will be a mix of any number of anime stereotypes that make them stick out (and possibly provide ample Fanservice). The only things that tend to change between these series are the aforementioned stereotypes, the plot tropes (mostly involving gems like Accidental Pervert and First Girl Wins), and who ends up getting the guy.

So something like Ichiban Ushiro No Dai Maou?

Demonic Hero, tsundere girls, lots of plot(?).

edited 18th Aug '11 6:43:03 PM by djmaca

Also, due to pandering, generic harems frequently offer no closure to the story.

Arc heroines Athena and Luca also actively approach Hayate. There are harem antics that generally involve girls who actually aren't going for him with any particular interest.

Isn't that just to ask for help from the person they trust the most, Specially to Athena since she know's Hayate is a monter in girly male's clothing...

Uh.... won't that mean there is supposed to be a second season?

Trying to define the Harem genre by the real world definition is plain silly. Anime harems have as much to do with actual harems as anime martial arts have to do with the ones we practice.

Um, no. Athena is quite clearly in love with Hayate and her other goals don't require his assistance. If anything, he's an obstacle. But I don't want to get into that in this thread due to spoilers.

^^ No, it doesn't mean there was supposed to be a second season, just that they didn't want to give an ending.

edited 18th Aug '11 6:52:44 PM by Arha

Uh, sorry I haven't seen harem anime with loose ends before. Care to site something I can review?

Like I said, it's like moe. It doesn't have a real definition. That's why I'm asking how you look and define it in your POV.

edited 18th Aug '11 6:57:44 PM by djmaca

Failing to complete your plot regardless of whether you thought you would have a second season to wrap things up is the greatest possible evil!

edited 18th Aug '11 8:34:01 PM by UltimatelySubjective

Hm. They Are My Noble Masters ends pretty ambiguously. Tenchi Muyo only sorts things out via Word of God. There's also the tendency to string things along for an absurd length of time such as in Hayate The Combat Butler or Love Hina. I don't think the Love Hina anime ever even got to the hookup.

Love Hina did, at the very end.

The anime? I know the manga did. The characters even lampshaded how long they had stretched things out for and got mad about it. But it's been years since I watched the anime and can't really say for certain that they tied everything up properly. I only remembers bits and pieces of the OVA like the christmas date thingy.

There are several under the Tenchi Solution page too.

Tenchi Muyo and Love Hina pretty much codified the harem genre of anime as we know it. Ouran High School(?) and Fruits basket are pretty much the reverse harem.

^^^ There were a couple false starts and still some loose ends, but Keitaro and Naru finally got together at the end of Love Hina Again OVA.

edited 18th Aug '11 7:18:53 PM by Spirit

So having the Tenchi Solution as part of the ending of a harem anime is always a bad thing?

edited 18th Aug '11 7:20:02 PM by djmaca

Urusei Yatsura was both a major kickstarter and subversion (even before the actual genre was invented!) of the harem genre.

You can see the influence of UY in everything from Ranma (duh) to Tenchi Muyo to To Love Ru and Love Hina.

What? No. Any kind of ending is good as long as it's well done and fits the story.

edited 18th Aug '11 7:20:40 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

The problem with the term Tenchi Solution is that it refers to basically all possible endings except picking one specific girl.

I was simply referring to the page because you asked for examples, not implying that it was a bad thing.

The point being made is that there are harem series (Love Hina, Ai Yori Aoshi, etc), there are also other series that have some elements of harem series but are focused on other things (Code Geass, Full Metal Panic), and some shows that combine extensive harem elements with other genres, (Hayate The Combat Butler, Tenchi Muyo, Ranma One Half).

Pure Harem series have several problems:

1: The tendency to have a flat uninteresting protagonist (because the girls are the focus)

2: Nothing going on in the plot except for the harem conflict. It's hard to make interesting and fresh.

Every year there are bunch of forgettable harem series that have the flaws above. Sometimes they try to solve them by adding some additional plot with fights and combat, and flashy weapons or moves. If done well this can resolve some of these problems, if done poorly, it usually gets thrown into the same category as "forgettable harem series"- usually because fans take the view that if it hadn't been weighed down with the harem elements it "could have been cool". (Personally I think the fans are fooling themselves, the plot would have sucked either way). No one remembers these, so nobody ever sees them except those people who insist on watching every show each season. (Mangas tend to be even more forgettable).

There are some straight harem series that do succeed in solving the above issues. These tend to be the more memorable ones, and thus the ones you are more likely to have seen. Love Hina is one of them. Keitaro is so pathetically losing at life despite his dogged persistence that he's actually not a blank screen. He has an interesting personality. The harem conflict is made more interesting by having all the girls start off hating him, and with understandable reasoning.

Ai Yori Aoshi is another. The male lead is a young man who defies his grandfather and is disowned. He's interesting as a person who has a very strong will and a lot of hidden angst. You might not care for that, but he's hardly a blank screen. The conflict is given a fresh twist by having him already picked the winning girl- and yet their families are opposed so they have to hide it- leading to the other girls thinking he's still a free agent.

3: Yet even these series run into the same problem that plagues all harem series: Shipping Bed Death. Once the harem is resolved, there just isn't a show anymore.

Thus all harem series tend to drag on the romance and thus cause viewers to feel frustration about the extended Will They or Won't They?. This causes the general contempt and ridicule that harem shows tend to receive.

Shonen shows that continually add a new "ultimate power" each season tend to get a similar response of contempt and ridicule.

Does that answer the OP question?

edited 18th Aug '11 9:04:03 PM by Sackett

So a generic harem anime doesn't give an ending that fits the story? Isn't that a YMMV thing?

Reading the Great Wall of Text above I would like to clarify several things:

1. I have been thinking about your so-called uninteresting protagonist: say that every season a harem show will present a shounen hero as a harem hero. Overtime we'd see variations of this over and over until it gets the same treatment of many shounen shows.

2. Nothing going on in the plot except for the harem conflict. It's hard to make interesting and fresh. So say let's turn the girls into the ff: 1. a Action Girl, 2. a Robot Girl, 3. an emo, 4. an Oneesama figure and 5. a Tsundere. They like the protagonist, but since harem isn't the plot then say their romantic feelings for the hero will be Put on a Bus, they just became friends or that they all died. Isn't that a shonen show thinly disguised as a harem?

I would also like you to cite(sic) some Harem shows that are forgettable. For the record I haven't seen Ai Yori Aoshi so I have no idea what kind of show it is.

edited 18th Aug '11 9:17:40 PM by djmaca

^ No, it's a common trait of generic harem anime to not provide adequate resolution. Alan has Betty, Carol, Daniel, Erika and Francine all in love with him and all the typical harem antics for 13/26 episodes, but by the end none of the relationships have actually progressed and there's no indication he will pick any. The other side of the problem that I think NDC may be referring to is examples of Strangled by the Red String, but honestly I can't remember any examples of that off the top of my head.

edited 18th Aug '11 9:13:22 PM by Arha