"Unless in the future where the Venezuelans will remove everything he did in his years and ensure he goes down as a pariah whose rethroic nearly destroyed the Venezuelan spirit, ensuring such tragedy ever happens ever again."
Key word here: UNLESS.
it depend if venezuelan people learn about this and I hardly doubt it, for year they call the oposition escualidos"scrawny", "imperaist lap dogs", and pitiyankees, some years later and here we are, everything they said were true.
"Before you say "No vale yo no creo" the Chilean left already did the same with Allende"
the Chilean left at least have reason to it since Allende was out by a coup and have to suffer pinochet, while I doubt chavismo will see chavez as populist he is, Im sure as hell Maduro will go as the worst president in history.
" it's just that nationalism just seems like the perfect solution after what Venezuela has been through"
I hightly disagree, we already sufferws a lot of nacionalism with Chavez, we dont need more of it.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
@Malebranche: If you want to swing the pendulum away from the Reds, it's probably best to leave aside the authoritarian nationalist bit. To pursue that path would just swing the pendulum towards the other end.
Also, centrism nowadays tends to correspond with the average [economically] liberal capitalist view, which would not allow one to pursue the authoritarian path (unless your country can become like Singapore, which is unlikely, considering the amount of territory). It would also mean that your Constitution would have to receive some significant changes, in order to solve the problem of power within the government.
edited 31st Aug '17 12:11:25 PM by Quag15
The last thing Venezuela needs is more authoritarianism. I can't see us becoming non-nationalist anytime in the foreseeable future so I guess that's not in question.
Anyways, our Pinochet will have to be truly horrible to make Maduro look like a reasonable option. Unfortunately I'm afraid that the 'Chávez myth' might end up persisting.
This thread is aptly named, it serves as a reminder that everything we're going through is his fault.
And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
El cambur volador.
Pfff... What's wrong with wanting some danger and power? you guys are exagerating.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I may have said the same a long time ago. But now I feel like the only one who can solve our problems is me.
edited 31st Aug '17 2:07:36 PM by Malebranche
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
In the medium or long term, power corrupts anyone. Absolute or authoritarianist power even more so.
It's Maduro and his group who are currently seeking danger and power at all costs. Don't stoop to their level.
edited 31st Aug '17 2:49:05 PM by Quag15
Considering danger and power is the whole reason Venezuela is in such a shitty state, you're just asking for a Full-Circle Revolution at this point. When it comes down to it, left and right aren't so different once they achieve that power. Look at China, their actions with the various propagandizing Confucius Institutes, their treatment of internal minority groups, the T Ibetans, the Uyghur, their various attempts at neocolonialism in Africa right now. Despite their nominal leftism they have more in common with the despotism of the far-right. This is what nationalism does to a country.
This 100%. History shows that "though our methods and end goals are the same, we swear we're totally better than them just because we have a different ideological platform" rarely pans out.
edited 31st Aug '17 3:14:02 PM by AlleyOop
Psst, if you want to convince a Venezuelan oppositor of something, try not to use too many leftist clichés, they're beyond stale by now.
Anyhows, even disregarding the whole "absolute power corrupts absolutely", the things that an authoritarian ruler needs to do to maintain power usually aren't good for the nation. For example, you'll need to concentrate wealth on those close to you, so if tomorrow you wake up in Maduro's body, you'll find that either you keep handing out DIPRO dollars or PDVSA positions, or pull a López Contreras and start opening things up.
And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
El cambur volador.
Nonsense, I'm sure greatness is Venezuela and Venezuelans destiny. As long as this feeling of mine remains the same I'll be able to beat all corruption, defeat all enemies and gain endless power for my people.
Malebranche is filled with determination.
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
It's been a good while that the topic of emmigration comes up in my real-life almost at least once per day.
And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
El cambur volador.
Me too, lots of people are really depressed. Let's hang in there.
A lot of people were affected because of the rain in Aragua. I myself caught a huge allergy because of it and I'm asthmatic but luckily my body is still feeling fine. Stay safe everyone.
edited 7th Sep '17 12:48:23 PM by Malebranche
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
Well, i'm working on a workpage for Doña Barbara. I don't know why, but I want an excuse to read the work. I'm sure the YMMV will be interesting.
Whatever, can you guys see how the page is going? Tomodachi, is still far from done, but I like to think is going well.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
El cambur volador.
I'll surely have a look. May I ask what you liked the most about Doña Barbara? The thing I liked about it was the book has some kind of romanticism about being caught up between modern civilized society and complete savagery. Kind of like us in a way. I would like for the book to become more popular and I will try to make it part of Venezuelan romanticism but meh, the book is kind of hard and not for everyone.
edited 7th Sep '17 9:43:14 PM by Malebranche
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
I ditto the opinion, I like that theme. I also kind of like how Doña Barbara, despite being the main antagonist, is another victim of the circunstances.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
El cambur volador.
Today was the opposition's primaries. I saw a lot of people move. Manuel has a lot of Caudillism here in Zulia so Eveling has that advantage but Juan Pablo has the young in his favour. Either way I'll give a vengeance vote against Arias Cardenas.
edited 10th Sep '17 1:01:00 PM by Malebranche
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
I didn't voite today, is a lost cause: Sucre has always been chavista, and I dislike opposition guy Robert Alcala. I'm hoping third party member, Ramon Martinez, who was a previous and popular governor, wins.
The chavista guy is a puppet: he has no real personality, but he has connections, so, the elections are more about him and Ramon Martinez than chavismo vs opposition. So, chavismo vs ex chavismo.
Also, this reminds me: During the last governor elections, I didn't vote for either the chavista party (who won) or the opposition, who I really despised. I voted for a third party member who, well, was a chavista, but it was either him or nothing. After chavismo won, the opposition scoundrel turned his back and became a chavista THE FIRST SECOND HE LOST. I'm glad I made the right choice, and luckily, fortune has been kind, since that scoundrel hasn't won any election ever since. Justice was served, even if it was on a small dose.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
El cambur volador.
I get yah. I don't know Juan Pablo Guanipa is a new face and my mother says she is ok with him so I'll give him a chance. But I will mostly vote like I said before as a revenge against Arias Cardenas.
Even if the opposition isn't any better, I'm hoping we win nearly all governations so the international pressure against both the reds and the opposition becomes too huge so they start another wave of protests.
The last protests started because of the huge international rejection against Maduro taking over the powers of the congress and later the constituent. I'm hoping the large margin in the elections create a similar domino effect.
We need the milicos help. There's no way out without them and as citizens all we can do is keep the heat on the streets.
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
El cambur volador.
Tomodachi. dude congratz on the page. The whole thing about the book becoming infamous because of Chavez's "Mister Danger" line killed me.
Also I liked how you added a lot of things about our weird... behaviour. Sorry I didn't answer earlier It's just that my computer got damaged and I was too lazy like to check the page with my phone.
Also good talk between Fernando and Maria Corina about the opposition and the recent dialogue.
What Fernando says at the end about the opposition's contradictory behaviour is priceless!
edited 15th Sep '17 8:58:05 PM by Malebranche
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
Normally I'm okay with Guanipa, but I'm bothered that he is one of those deputies who decided to run for governor instead.
Everything has been a disappointment lately, I'm not looking forward to these elections.
And that's how I ended up in the wardrobe. It Just Bugs Me!
El cambur volador.
I can't say the same. I was a little depressed recently. But something happened that got my hopes up. I'm constantly training and watching the news everyday like a hawk.
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
Doña Barbara workpage is finished. Now, I need to do a workpage for Dross Rotzank (Due to being a frequent help on Colbert Bumping many works). Besides, I want to create a creator page for Sea Snail Studio, and I have to mention Dross on his creator biography.
Well, the page is incomplete, but at least is pretty decent. About the book: I talked with my mother about the telenovela, and was surprised by the many changes (For example, El Sapo, that Small Role, Big Impact, becoming an antagonist on the telenovela). Maybe I should check it out later.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
I cant belive I get the day to see dross mention in tv tropes, what definly in intersting times....
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
I also have to make a Useful Notes workpage for Hugo Chávez, but that is harder than Dross.... and Dross is already hard (Because I don't know what to make of Dross. Creator? (Due to being an author) Blogger? (Because el Diario de Dross). Meh, I'll work on it later)
I will have to ask the moderators to help with the controversial president workpage later.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
I will said creator since he have the diario, is youtube channel(which a this point is enterely diferent from the blog, the forme he have a 4chan awfull personal, he is pretty much himself) so yeah, let go with creator.
El cambur volador.
If you are making a Chavez page, well he deserves a lot of effort for all the pain he caused us doesn't he?
Some young people barricaded the Francisco de Miranda in Chacao. I'm glad someone still has the will to fight.
A good example of the Nationalism I'm talking about would be the government Betancourt and Raul Leoni had
in Venezuela post Perez Jimenez. Since Venezuela is an oil country, all of our presidents have been Authoritarian since the government controls nearly everything.
edited 31st Aug '17 11:32:11 AM by Malebranche
Visita interiora terrae rectificando invenies occultum lapidem.