Adultery and Divorce

An interesting article, with some graphs I'm not going to copy/paste. The short version, is that in the last 40 years, opposition to adultery has risen across the US, from only 51% saying adultery is "always wrong" to over 75% saying the same thing in 2010. During the same time span, opposition to homosexual and premarital sex has dropped, and favorable attitudes towards divorce has increased, going from 53% approval in 1954 to 70% approval in 2008.*

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Are these two cases linked? Is adultery less acceptable now than it was 40 years ago because divorce is easier and more acceptable? Is there some other link driving both opinions? Any other opinions on the im/morality of adultery and divorce? *

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I...don't think they're directly related. In fact, I thought the data would have gone the other way around, as in acceptance of divorce=acceptance of adultery since it's much easier to break off from the cheating jerk/bitch if divorce is more accepted.

The fact that adultery is even less accepted while divorce is more accepted is odd, and leads me to think that either the way these datas were acquired is heavily flawed, or theres absolutely no relations between the two.

Or...there might be hidden factors we're not aware of.

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As for my opinion...cheaters/adulterers should be publicly exposed to protect their future partners somehow. On one hand you can say that it's a violation of their rights, on the other hand...who cares about them? How hard is it to NOT cheat?

PS - how do you expect a thread like this could possibly derail to abortion/underaged relationships?

edited 7th Aug '11 2:48:07 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Actually, I think its because co-habititon is more acceptable but I cant think of a good reason to the why.

Dutch Lesbian

Signed: Why? Couldn't it be that adultery is less accepted because divorce is accepted; that you no longer have to "tough it out" in a bad marriage, just divorce the bastard/skank and find someone new?

That’s the epitome of privilege right there, not considering armed nazis a threat to your life. - Silasw

I say yes. If the focus on marriage goes away from a necessity of survival to ideal pinnacle of a relationship, then the social expectation goes up for people to live up to the vows more strictly.

That's a good point.

I dislike adultery. Maybe I have too much personal experience with it, but I can't understand people who get back with the person who did that to them.

I would think that there's a correlation, but not a direct causal relationship.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

Frankly, your logic makes no sense at all. If you think it's easier to break off from the cheating jerk/bitch then obviously you're already thinking that cheating is less acceptable. Because you're breaking off with them. Yes? Cheating is more acceptable only under the assumption that you're expected to forgive them for it.

Currently, this one considers adultery (as in cheating on one's spouse) unacceptable under most circumstances. Note that not all "side" sex qualifies as cheating for this one. It's not the fact of sex with someone other than one's spouse that bothers this one, but betrayal and breach of trust. If both parties are explicitly ok with their SO having sex with someone else - nothing wrong with it. However, if divorce was banned/made insanely complicated, then this one would have nothing against cheating. There is no obligation if people no longer stay together by their own will.

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common

^^....elaborate...or paraphrase plz.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I'm all for having affairs... Probably because the best relationship I ever had was one as the other guy. It eventually imploded, but I've got no doubt these were the very best six months I ever lived, and probably the best six months I'll ever live.

So count me as an adultery fan.

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

If you think cheating is okay, then you forgive your partner for it and keep the relationship going. Therefore, thinking cheating is okay is associated with keeping relationships together.

If you think cheating is not okay, then you don't forgive your partner for it and end the relationship. Therefore, thinking cheating is not okay is associated with ending relationships.

You were thinking that "acceptance of adultery"="acceptance of divorce" because divorce makes it easier to break off relationships after adultery is discovered, but if you actually accept adultery then you wouldn't need to break off the relationship in the first place. So within your argument you were already assuming that adultery was unaccepted even as you were imagining a hypothetical scenario in which it was. There's a big contradiction in the center of your argument.

http://thinkprogress.org/yglesias/2011/07/27/281183/are-empowered-women-driving-reduced-tolerance-of-extramarital-affairs/

From yglesias

If you thought cheating was okay, there'd be nothing to forgive.

Enjoy the Inferno...

Okay in this context means "justifiable", not "I don't care".

It will be interesting to see what the poly tropers say to this.

hashtagsarestupid

I wonder how these statistics vary along gender lines. (I can't find any information about that in the linked pages.)

edited 8th Aug '11 3:15:38 AM by feotakahari

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

Signed: "How hard is it to NOT cheat?"

It depends what you mean by cheating. If you mean cheating as in "not following the relationship rules you and you SO agreed on", it's as easy as "not giving promises you can't keep". If you mean "not having sex(/making out/having emotional affair etc.) with anyone else than your SO", then that can be extremely difficult.

It depends partially on what each party agrees to being an affair, and what sort of "willpower" they have against the situation.

For example, a friend of mine had a girlfriend who had a lot of guy friends. This never made him feel comfortable, because he is very cautious and cynical about whether or not men and women can be friends and have absolutely nothing spark. Oh sure, it's possible, but that doesn't mean it's always the case.

In any case, he told me about how it upset him. The two of them talked rationally about it and laid down their concerns. She would be able to have her guy friends so long as she removed hersel from any situation where one thing could possibly lead to another (for example, no crashing at a guy friend's place or going to a movie with him alone).

In the end, exactly what he feared would happen happened anyway: she fell for one of guy friends and cheated on him.

Anyway, the TL;DR version is this: it's not about just "well if X happens, don't do Y". Sometimes, you have to take the steps to remove the chance of there ever being a problem. My friend would have been seen as jerk if he'd asked her to dump her friends, but it can still be argued that if she'd done so of her own accord, she wouldn't have cheated. At least, not with him.

Why'd you have to?

Why does everybody make such a huge deal with infidelity?

You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.

: Why do I have the suspicion that your friend caused his girlfriend to cheat?

If you're going to be accused of it, might as well do it, right?

I'm convinced that our modern day analogues to ancient scholars are comedians. -0dd1

Doing it just because you've been accused of it is a pretty bad reason to do anything, let alone cheat on someone.

Savage, people make a big deal about infidelity because when you're in a relationship you've implicitly agreed to not be with someone else. Basically, you went back on your word and broke the trust of someone who cares very deeply for you. Keeping your word tends to be important in very close relationships.

......does "SO" mean anything?

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Anyways, how is not sleeping around and avoiding other guys difficult? If you're a girl, you belong to the boyfriend already(and the other way around). If not, then you're not really a couple, you're just looking for a friend with benefits...or in a very open relationship where both sides agree to whore around.

Relationships are based on rules, etiquettes, and obedience. If one can't even have those 3 when in a relationship with others, then they shouldn't have any relationships to begin with.

If you're not going to be making those promises, then you shouldn't even be in a relationship to begin with...again, that is with the exception of being in a very open(friends with benefits) relationship.

edited 8th Aug '11 4:35:28 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

On paper, yes. In reality, not so much.

A friend of mine once said, "You never own a woman". He meant that in the sense of, people are going to do what they're going to do, regardless of what limits you impose on them. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much you've done for your significant other, they don't "belong" to you. They can talk to who they want to talk with, flirt with who they want to flirt with. Yes, most of us draw the line at kissing, groping, exhibiting, or intercourse with another person, but if your SO finds nothing wrong with wearing a low-cut shirt, are you going to divorce her because you disagree?

Agreed. But like any social contract, it's subject to changes, amendment, repeals, and contingencies. You're not going to cover every workable scenario. And even if you did, situations change. He might have said that no other woman turned him own as much as you did seven years ago, but that was then, and he probably hadn't even seen every woman that existed.

Like my friend's situation above, what do you do if he befriends a very beautiful coworker? Even if you're sure nothing's going on yet, do you tell him it makes you uncomfortable? Do you do this with every pretty woman he talks to?

I agree, but people do bite off more than they can chew and overstep their limits.

He didn't accuse her at all. He just said, "you know, all those guys make me feel uncomfortable. I know they're your friends, but I'm just saying."

She promised nothing had happened, was happening, or would happen.

He shrugged and said, "Okay. I trust you."

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On a semi-related note, this is exactly why my current lover and I are test-driving a polyamorous relationship. For one thing, we've been Nakama for quite some time now, and have grown quite attracted to each other. However, she has explicitly told me that she is not a monogamous person. She has a number of male and female Friends with Benefits that she loves. Amongst them, she considers me to be her "best friend".

It's not exactly a perfect solution (for one thing, she has about 13 lovers and all I've got is her, so I do sometimes feel inadequate), but I'm pretty content with the way things are at the moment. The only thing that sucks is trying to figure out how I should manage any other girls I approach.

edited 8th Aug '11 5:21:49 PM by KingZeal

Signed: "......does "SO" mean anything?"

A person you trust, respect and understand and who trusts, respects and understands you? Someone you plan your future with? Someone you want to make happy even if it's costs your own happiness? Someone you'd take a bullet for?

Signed: "Anyways, how is not sleeping around and avoiding other guys difficult? If you're a girl, you belong to the boyfriend already(and the other way around). If not, then you're not really a couple, you're just looking for a friend with benefits...or in a very open relationship where both sides agree to whore around."

You quite nicely excluded anyone non-straight from your example, but whatever. Some polygamists, do not only lack the capability of jealousy, but the mere thought of not being able to have sex with whomever and whenever you choose makes them panic. It's not uncommon that a polygamist is more likely to not cheat while the relationship is open, than it is when the relationship is closed.

It's something like this: your SO says they want you to loose weight. You're perfectly happy with your weight. You go on a diet, because you want to make your SO happy. You understand the logic behind your SO's need to get you thinner, but you don't understand it at the emotional level, because people's weights aren't that important to you. Being on a diet is hard on you, not only because you're used to eat whatever you want, but because you lack inner motivation. You really don't care if you loose weight or not and you don't know how to make yourself care.

This doesn't mean that people who want monogamist relationship and people who don't should be together, I'm merely trying to tell why not sleeping around can be hard. And I don't understand why you call sleeping around whoring.

Signed: "Relationships are based on rules, etiquettes, and obedience. If one can't even have those 3 when in a relationship with others, then they shouldn't have any relationships to begin with."

I think relationships are based on mutual trust, respect and understanding. People who are straight and monogamous have a fit relationship model with it's rules and etiquettes. Other people have invent new rules and during that process they have to rely on something else than rules.