Marvel Cinematic Universe

I still don't understand what people have against buffy speak. Specifically instances like x3 That.

Why is that an issue? It seems perfectly in-character to me, and something actual people would do.

I like Buffy-speak except when it's used by people for whom it's uncharacteristic (for example, on Agents Of Shield).

A lot of them seem to hit the same beats though. And all too many of them have samey third acts. Hell, both Cap films, GOTG, and Thor 2 all feature a large aircraft/spacecraft going down.

It becomes an issue when different characters all start using the same speech patterns and styles of dry wit to the point where they sound interchangeable. For example Thor suddenly dropping his grandiose tone to make the "he's adopted joke" which fell pretty flat for me. That kind of humor would've sound better on Tony, who on a related note I thought felt the most natural with Whedon's style in Avengers.

edited 21st Apr '15 5:40:06 PM by AlleyOop

The whole point of that joke is that Thor usually doesn't talk like that, though.

Like, literally all of the humour in that line comes from the fact that you wouldn't expect it from Thor.

edited 21st Apr '15 5:43:53 PM by Mukora

I saw it as less Thor trying to be witty and more him verbally backspacing and trying to distance himself from Loki, dropping his usual speaking pattern out of foot-in-mouth-ness.

Thor wasn't even snarking or anything. That was just the only response he could think of.

I guess I should've made it clear I know he's not trying to make a joke in-universe, but it's supposed to be something the audience finds funny. Still though it's not something that I found very funny, or the "That's not a party line". Black Widow isn't the kind of character to be Literal-Minded.

Gimme a break.

Yeah, I wasn't fond of Widow's "That's not a party" line. Seemed forced and unnecessary.

The "he's adopted" stuck out to me as one of the poorest examples in the movie of that sort of thing, but one of the most indicative of how it got its laughs. It's very funny when first delivered, especially in the middle of a theatre where everyone's reacting at every line, but then when you actually think of it not only is the idea that Thor would drop his devotion to his brother simply for the sake of getting through an awkward moment is horribly out of character, but the actual moment actually stops the scene in a very awkward way.

Avengers 1 had a couple moments like that, where they sacrificed a bit of characterization or even keeping the plot moving smoothly for the sake of stopping short and delivering a joke. The "murderbot" joke does the same thing - the scene is fairly tense, and that line, rather than diffuse the tension in an amusing way the line more feels weird because it doesn't really work well with the character delivering it.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:26:15 PM by KnownUnknown

Like... real people do that all the time, though. People have lapses even when it comes to their strongest principles.

I think you're overthinking this.

How so? Attempting to play it off as something that happens in real life also acknowledges that that it is what happens in the movie, so I'm clearly not seeing something you don't.

However, just because people do something in real life does not make it good characterization. Much to the contrary - in this case, it's called being Out of Character, which is typically bad writing.

If a character is going to renege on their values, it should be for a decent, in-character reason, not solely because a writer is trying to be funny and wants to sacrifice that character for the joke.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:30:36 PM by KnownUnknown

I think people are overreacting to that line.

Not to the humor in Avengers in general but to that line.

I really think you're overstating the effect one line has on Thor's characterization.

My point is, sometimes people have values they believe in strongly, but on occassion they'll mess up, either for the sake of a joke, or just because, I dunno, people are weird?

Oh, come on, that's just bullshit. Nobody was out of character in the Avengers, especially Black Widow. The Avengers actually gave her some good characterization after the terrible job Iron Man 2.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:32:55 PM by higherbrainpattern

I assumed the party line was because widow was trying to be more tactful than "You're an asshole Tony" but couldn't because a giant murderous space Monstro was bearing down on her.

I just realized I would like it if Ultron gets eaten by one of the Chitauri space whales at some point in the movie.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:35:07 PM by Canid117

The line doesn't ruin the scene or anything, it's just awkward and an example of some of the off parts of Avengers' humor. I don't know much about Joss Whedon's other work, but I hear that sort of thing is his trademark, but it doens't always work - Avengers does that sort of thing a lot, and it affects the movie on rewatch. The plot stops short every now and then for the sake of a joke, with Beats that are more awkward than funny as a result. I don't know how many films Joss has done, but since he's mostly known for tv I can see that: that sort of humor flies better in a television medium.

I'm not too happy about it being back for the sequel, but I'm not surprised and I'm certainly not doomsaying the movie over it, since it is apparently one of Joss' trademarks.

You're misreading what I'm saying. The one line doesn't affect Thor's characterization as a whole - much to the opposite, actually. The way Thor acts for the rest of the movie makes the line not work, and the moment feels awkward and stops things short for a moment as a result.

It's not failed characterization, it's just a badly misfired joke.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:48:27 PM by KnownUnknown

Another review.

Also, are we really getting worried that a movie may just be 'good' instead of 'amazing'?

Just watch the film. What works for others will probably not work for you and vice versa. No need to get overly upset until you've seen it.

edited 21st Apr '15 6:36:23 PM by edvedd

According to Rotten Tomatoes, Age of Ultron is at 89%.

Sounds like a pretty good movie to me.

There's nothing wrong with tempering expectations, but ultimately, you have to decide what you thought of the movie.

"Did it work for me?" is the only question you need to ask.

And hey, I hear Hawkeye is awesome.

And here's another review.

Basically his thrust is that there isn't a pure 'fist pump' moment, but it's consistently better overall.

And Hawkeye is awesome.

Whoohoo, guess I'm the first who's seen it here.

I personally loved it, but I can understand if people feel there's too much going on. While I agree it's not a fist pump-y as the first film, there were some VERY SPOILER-Y moments where the entire theatre got crazy like Vision picking up Mjölnir, and Thanos grabbing the Gauntlet in The Stinger.

If you're interested in more spoilery details feel free to send me a PM.

E: I mostly agree with the Badass Digest review posted above, though I disagree about cutting the Klaue segment. I thought Andy Serkis was wonderful.

edited 21st Apr '15 7:18:37 PM by Rvdz

GODDDAMNIT SHIT!!!!!

Guess I'm avoiding this thread for the next four weeks.

edited 21st Apr '15 7:34:46 PM by higherbrainpattern

I really have to stop using highlight to scroll down pages. Luckily, I was able to shut my brain off before reading the whole thing.

edited 21st Apr '15 7:40:45 PM by KnownUnknown

Okay, now I have to see this movie. I mean, not that I didn't already before, but...

I'm clocking out here guys. See you in a few weeks, I guess.