So, how the hell do we get Amazon to pay sales taxes?

The United States Supreme Court ruled in 1992 that if a company has no stores in a state, that state cannot collect sales tax from that company. States (most recently California) have repeatedly tried to get around that by treating company affiliates as company stores. Every time this happens in a state where Amazon has affiliates, it cuts them all off. Amazon isn't hurt too badly by this, but a lot of the affiliates are mom-and-pop affairs that can't support themselves without it. The question then becomes, how do we get the company to pay up?

...implement a Federal sales tax? Otherwise, I'm not sure, but this kind of thing bothers me. Whether it's Amazon doing it because it doesn't want to pay taxes like everyone else or Wal-Mart doing it because people want to be in a union. To me, it's highly unethical, though I don't know of a way to fairly stop it...

Just abolish the sales tax and make up for it with an increase in corporate taxes.

Do like Canada, point of sale for the sales tax.

Breadloaf's is easily the easiest and most feasible solution, and probably the most likely to happen.

Of course, that's assuming that Amazon and other online stores don't hire lobbyists (they will) or that they won't be able to hire enough lobbyists to fight it for some time (they will).

Why? Fuck Mom and Pops. If all they're doing is standing between the customers and Amazon deliveries, they're wastes of time anyway.

^ That's unfair. There are things that the Mom-and-pop stores carry that Amazon doesn't. A Mom-and-pop can, and usually does, adjust its stock to suit the neighborhood or community it serves. Even paying sales tax at the Mom-and-pop, it may well cost less for the same thing, since Amazon charges shipping and the mom-and-pop doesn't have to.

Or just plain customer service, which larger stores and online stores are often terrible with.

Mom and pop store:

Customer: Oh hi, I had thing x I bought from you a few weeks ago, it broke down.
Mom and pop: No problem, we'll take it back and get you a new one.

Big store:

Customer: Oh hi, I had thing x I bought from you a few weeks ago, and it broke down.
Big store: So what, you must have broken it.
Customer: No, I hardly used it.
Big store: Do you have your receipt?
Customer: Yes, right here.
Big store: Okay, it says you paid with credit card. We can't give you anything other than store credit.
Customer: Fine, fine. Store credit then.
Big store: Oh my, it seems you purchased this 15 days ago!
Customer: Yes, and?
Big store: We're sorry, we only offer returns on things that were purchased two weeks ago or less. (yes, many big stores are getting this bad.)
Customer: FUUUUUUUUUU (customer is now out $300)

Online store:

Customer: Oh hi, thing x I purchased a few weeks ago is broken.
Online store faq: Broken or defective items can be returned within 30 days, assuming the customer is not responsible etc.
Customer: Okay, what address do I send it back to...
Online store info, on a different page: Send all returns to [somewhere on the other side of the country.]
Customer: Okay, I'll get that in the mail then.
Waits 5 days-

Online store: We're sorry, we can't accept your return as it's been more than 30 days since your purchase.
Customer: But I mailed it after 26 days!

Waits a day for a response-

Online store: We're sorry, defective products must be returned 30 days after purchase. It has now been 32 days since your purchase, so it is no longer eligible.
Customer: But the mail should have arrived after 3 days, you guys obviously stalled until the 30 day limit was up!

Waits a day for a response-

Online store: We're sorry, but it has been 33 days since your purchase. Your product is no longer valid for replacement.
Customer: Can I at least get the damn thing back now?
Waits a day for a response-

Online store: We will return your product now. Thank you for using online store.

Five days later, broken product returns. Customer is out $300, 13 days of waiting and much of their sanity.

edited 31st Jul '11 10:41:57 AM by deathjavu

Make it a Federal law.

Amazon in the UK pays VAT - they get round it where they can, by using an importer based in the Channel Isles for DVD's. But they'll pay sales tax/VAT type taxes where there's no loophole for them to use.

Right, because you would rather have the MegaCorp over a much more harmless and much more respectable small businesses? Yeah, Amazon is convenient, this is true; they're also dicks.

edited 31st Jul '11 10:51:17 AM by USAF713

I'd pass a law in my state where you have to pay sales tax if the recipient of the goods is in this state.

Also, fuck amazon. They fit the megacorp trope perfectly, including being evil.

edited 31st Jul '11 10:54:14 AM by Lessinath

Evil? That's a stretch. Apple is evil. Google is evil in a (I think) Well-Intentioned Extremist Utopia Justifies the Means kind of way. Amazon is just a giant dickwad.

I wouldn't call it a stretch at all. Just look at how they treat smaller companies and states that try to (rightfully) collect taxes from them.

Like breadloaf mentioned earlier, we have point of sales tax for items. That plus shipping sometimes negates the point of shopping online though.

I don't particularly care about the middle man. There's two basic groups that matter in this case, the customer and the producer. The less in between, the better.

Amazon is a distributor too, you know, and they're willing to openly steal from the government. Like, in everyone's faces. What do you think they think of the customers if they thumb their noses at US officials?

I'm aware that Amazon is a distributor, I don't care if they hate me, I just want the service.

Yeah, they hate you. They're also well on track to monopolizing their particular field, or at least greatly diminishing all forms of competition that aren't online. When it narrows down to MegaCorp A and MegaCorp B (likely eBay and Amazon), where do you think you'll be with customer service and good prices?

edited 31st Jul '11 5:01:14 PM by USAF713

Monopolizing general delivery maybe. I'd expect companies to open up direct sales to customers by then.

To be fair, half the reason I use Amazon in the first place is because even with shipping, lots of expensive purchases are cheaper than if they had sales tax, and I don't have to go to a store. I hate shopping real world, I do it all online.

Let me ask, where is Amazon's corporate headquarters located? 'Cause, if they don't have seperate stores they sell merchandise through, wouldn't their headquarters count as their store?

San Jose, California.

Why the big deal with trying to force them to collect the sales tax? I find it hard to imagine that their sales are seriously crippling the already-crippled California budget by the lack of tax revenue.

How about this: if the affiliate to Amazon is providing the product, how about they simply tack on the sales tax to the price of them item, Amazon adjusts the listed price upward as appropriate but doesn't mention that the item is taxed, the point of sale gets the money, they pay the tax to the state directly, Amazon ships the goods, done deal. Or is that too simplistic? Does California's tax apply to all points in the consumer chain, sort of like a General Excise Tax?

I'm surprised Hawaii hasn't piped up about this, either.

Amazon collects sales tax in:

• Kansas
• Kentucky
• New York
• North Dakota
• Washington

So, why is California a big freaking deal, then? If they do it elsewhere, why not simply say "okay" and do it?