Your opinion on Jehovah's Witnesses

So then you didn't mean what I thought. Alright, then. I'm sorry.

It was a quarter. I'm not complaining.

Epicsigh: well I would say fair enough, but is it really seen as a big deal? I mean I'm sure you have laxly members bending the rules as with all religion.

If a jehovah's Witness church decided to say throw a social gathering on October 31th what's the worst that would happen?

I'm not trying to say people should be trying to subvert the rules, I just would be surprised if they don't.

If it was just a normal social gathering, you know, with food and friends and maybe something on TV in the background, I can't imagine that there'd be any issue. If the party planners started asking the attendees to wear costumes or hung up "spooky" decorations or something pretty obviously Halloween based they'd be more likely to get called out on it.

Basically what it boils down to is intentions. Does the gathering seem to be made with the intent of emulating things that we're not supposed to be doing? Or is it simply a mistimed event, where the person planning simply forgot that the holiday in question existed? This is why rules bending is so heavily frowned upon, you're not trying to bend strict rules like that of a government, you're trying to bend a set of principles, much more akin to a code of ethics.

So how far exactly does the "no celebrations" rule go? Does it mean no parties, period, or just nothing connected to a holiday or tradition you don't celebrate? Are birthdays also out of the question? What about simply saying "congratulations!" to someone?

I'm not a JW myself, so I can't speak authoritatively on the subject, but I know birthdays aren't celebrated. As far as my limited research has informed me, a lot of celebrations that are barred are done so due to their origins in pagan practices. I believe weddings and anniversaries are allowed, though.

Question (not trying to be snide here, genuinely curious): what about the names of the week then? They are of clear Pagan derivation, after all — do Jehovah's Witnesses use different versions? And if not, why?

Personally, I think that trying to avoid all elements of our culture of Pagan origin is a pointless task, and one which — if actually achieved — would deprive us of many things of great beauty and value. The ancient Church Fathers were perfectly aware of this, and several of them — like Cyprian of Carthage, Origen of Alexandria or Augustine of Hippo — were extremely well versed in that cultural tradition.

It is not a tradition without its problematic aspects, as them and many others pointed out; but one of the great strengths of Christianity, it seems to me, is that it has never been afraid to look at interesting ideas from other sources and adapt and incorporate them — without accepting them acritically, but without rejecting them acritically either.

As far as Halloween is concerned, I have no particular affection for it — it's just not traditional back in Italy, and frankly I have no sympathy for current attempts to copy U.S. traditions and adopt it — but I cannot find anything objectionable in the general concept of wearing "scary" costumes, watching horror movies (not my thing, but eh) or handing candy to children.

Now if we are talking about seances and "summoning the dead" and that sort of stuff, I have to agree that that stuff is not compatible with Christianity and is best avoided; but as I understand it, most people who celebrate Halloween do nothing of that kind.

edited 19th Oct '14 7:22:32 AM by Carciofus

Although personally I'm inclined to think the only important meaning attached to any sort of ceremony is the meaning attached in the present by a reasonable person, there's undeniably an element of ceremony present in blowing candles out that there isn't in naming days of the week.

But the Jehovah's Witnesses stance on halloween is something I'd even agree with (were I still strongly Christian), since the Bible explicitly takes a hard line with anything involving the supernatural and witches. As you may be aware even reading a book like Harry Potter would be strongly frowned upon.

edited 23rd Oct '14 5:57:28 AM by UltimatelySubjective

Whoops I forgot about this thread and let questions build up, I'll go in order of response.

@Mukora Celebrations in general are fine, it's basically what you said in that they shouldn't be in relation to an already established thing that we don't celebrate (holidays, birthdays, some third thing I don't know). A quick congratz is unusual but not, in my experience, regarded as negative. After all, they're simply acknowledging that you're now older, the problem arises when you make a whole celebration out of that fact, making that day all about you.

@0dd1 Baby showers are fine too, as are many other things, but you're right in that the ones we don't celebrate usually have either pagan or nationalistic origins.

@Carciofus Acknowledgement of local culture is one thing, incorporation of it into your religious doctrine to get the support of those locals is quite another, and is one of the main reasons why people like the very ones you posted are considered negative influences in our teachings.

To put this in perspective, let us imagine a very silly situation, one in which people began to teach in history books that the events in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter were legitimate facts, re-shaping what actually happened in the past to fit that narrative, simply because they found that people found a vampire hunting president to be more appealing than a stuffy guy with a cool hat. Take that same concept and apply it to the philosophers of that day, twisting what they should have known even more than we do now happened into something more palatable for the local Greeks and Romans and whomever else was nearby. Repeat the same process every time the Church came across a new culture that they felt had to be indoctrinated and slowly but surely Christianity becomes less and less what it originally was as it panders more and more to more new groups of people. It's the longest game of Telephone ever recorded. (this also ties into why we consider origins to be so important, negating all of the "oh it's harmless" talk what is to be gained from continuing to practice these things once you learn of their origins?)

@Ultimately Subjective Thanks man, you answered the thing about named days after I forgot to after writing that mini essay.

I'll say this, no matter what denomination they come from, I doubt most Biblical scholars would debate you on that point about a game of Telephone.

My opinion on Jehova's Witnesses: While I don't personally agree with their doctrine, I fully respect their right to practice their religion and am polite to any that visit. What I don't have a tolerance for is people that bully or pull pranks on them, same as I have no tolerance for any kind of religious or anti-religious bigotry.^note Seriously, why is there no "blanket word" for that?

edited 25th Oct '14 6:04:39 AM by BaffleBlend

Also, thanks for the explanations.

No problem, I'm here all week.

Family and I watched the Annual Meeting recording at Bethel, can't believe they're starting up what's essentially a monthly video podcast among so many other things.

So you either got roku, or use your computer to watch, right?

You can watch it on tablets and the like as well, it seems, but yeah. It's insane that they managed to take what would have been a year and a half project in anyone else's hands (making the stage) and condensed it down to two months.

Yeah. It's acactually pretty cool watching a whole different channel.

Yeah, we definitely are a modern organization now when it comes to technology. We even make cartoons! I love it.

Yeah, several people I've met say that the cartoons are better than some of the things kids watch these days.

It was a nice thing to hear.

One of the younger kids in the congregation did this week's Bible reading, he did REALLY well and only kind of messed up on a couple of the larger words, which is even more impressive when I found out later that he lost one of his teeth while on stage.

From 1 to 10 how awful is to necro a thread? Yup, my ignorance comes from the fact that I'm lurker, not a poster.

Anyway, another JW here, got baptized a couple of months ago but my direct family and about 3/4 of my extended are also jws. For today's meeting I was in charge of the sound table, got a bit distracted from the meeting and decided to look about us in this place. Voila

After reading 10 pages of the original thread, I'm writing my opinions here within that frame of reference, FYI.

Yea, we knock on doors (although less and less these days, tbh. The literature carts are way more effective now), yes, there is a no-call list, my friends and I call it the black list because duh. Nope, we don't celebrate christmas/b-days, etc, for reasons already stated on the thread. On that I'll say I don't mind other people doing that, in fact go ahead, have fun ;D

Yup, some of us have a hollier than thou attitude which actually makes me think "this is why we can't have nice things", they give a terrible image and make preaching harder for the rest of us. On the other hand, these days I've seen that attitude only in elderly folks, and besides I live in the butt-end of the world so there might be a cultural thing somewhere around.

Blood medical use... well, all the information is available to the public, feel free to make your own opinion about it, but I stand firm on regards to not accepting blood transfusions. Which doesn't mean I'm gonna force you (or any of my bros/sis in fact) or even try to convince you about the medical alternatives which don't use blood, bla bla blah.

And that's about the gist of it. I love reading and I try to at least give a chance to every piece of fiction that falls into my hands so as to make my own opinion about it. That's why I still play Dn D with some old acquaintances from highschool and college. I hate when someone wants to force me to do or believe something and I refrain from doing so even during preaching work. I don't give flak to my fellow sisters and brothers if I don't agree with sth they do/watch/whatever as long as it doesn't go directly against what Jehova wants, and even then I tend to mind my own business. I don't mind gay marriage since some of the nicest people I met in college were gay and they deserve to be happy with whoever they want but I'm clear that the big boss up there doesn't agree with same sex relations. He also doesn't agree with me or anyone else discriminating them or hating them so I verbally bash anyone who does (Even a fellow brother once. Both of us got dressed down by the elders, he for speaking crap and me for bashing him down in bad faith. Yup, got carried away with that one)

Crap this is a bloody testament.

PS: By butt-end of the country I mean Chile. We speak spanish, probably in the worst way possible so obviously english is my second language. And I know my vocabulary in english tends to be rather colorful so if some specific words are swearing please let me know. I'm pretty sure about the F-bombs and the other obvious ones but not about the rest. Ditto for any stupid spelling mistakes

edited 4th Nov '17 6:28:08 PM by Bellzelute

> but I stand firm on regards to not accepting blood transfusions.

I can't wrap my head around this because i know from experience that blood transfusions meant I survived and didn't suffer complications from blood loss during surgery

Baffle Blend - YES.

My only contact with Jehovah's Witnesses comes from them knocking on my door. My answer to them is the same as it is to the Mormon missionaries (whose visits were more frequent, as my ex-husband was raised Mormon and the LDS Church kept trying to get him to go back): "This is a secular household and it will stay that way. Do you two need water or sunscreen? Okay, have a good day."

As far as holidays are concerned, if I were to make friends with someone who didn't celebrate a particular holiday for religious reasons, my answer would be, "Oh, okay. Instead of going to the Halloween party, would you like to get coffee next week sometime?"

Never thought someone would actually reply this, nice o.o

Since I gave up on figuring out how to quote someone I'll answer right here, as far as blood transfusions go, it is not related with it being convenient or not (not the main reason anyway), it has to do with a thing about principles. Since blood is sacred we "enforce" that...sacredness by not accepting transfusions. Also we don't eat animals which have not been drained from blood or at least killed by decapitation, which happens to be most, if not all, of the meat sold at supermarket or to the public. And obviously we don't eat food in which the main ingredient is blood. Here in Chile that would be ñache (a coagulated blood jelly thingy) and prietas (blood sausages)

Still can't understand how your 'principles' means you reject treatment which can save your life,I get that it's sacred,but your life is sacred,surly accepting a blood transfusion means protecting that life?