This cannot be allowed to pass.. The sheer chance that a sufficiently tipped super congress could quickly cut things like social security out of existence unless it had overwhelming opposition is just unacceptable.
And this will cause Republican Strategy to revolve around this. They'll fillibuster a controversial subject in congress long enough to force the Super Congress to address it, at least for issues they care about adequately. This will make politics slower, not faster.
I find it incredibly telling that they want to cut nothing but social programs—up to and including veterans' benefits, of all things—but refuse to cut a military that is about twice as large as it needs to be for a "superpower" and three times as large as it should be for a normal country. Really now, I used to think I was a moderate Republican, but at this point I find myself cringing every time they come onto the air. The Tea Party movement has been the worst thing to ever happen to the GOP; we should bring Eisenhower back from the dead so he can slap these idiots before they really screw the pooch.
I hope this gets shot down as unconstitutional, or we're in for a shitstorm of ridiculous proportions.
I am now known as Flyboy.If this passes, I believe a swift end to the USA will come. Not even joking, we are fucking doomed if this happens.
I think the term "super committee" would be more accurate, unless they're running their own elections. I think it's not a good idea though.
Fight smart, not fair.I'm with Barkey's comment from the other thread. Obama has the power to veto this, and he has the responsibility to veto it. If he signs this, which I truly believe he won't, all of his support will evaporate.
Alternately, the media will ignore it and the whole thing will just blow over, are any broadcast outlets talking about this yet?
Nobody else is commenting on this yet. I seriously hope to the almighty that this is false.
And by seriously hope, I mean that I am searching online for Lutheran prayers, to which I was baptised, and saying them with all my heart.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen FryIt's only (very) early Sunday morning though...
We have to wait until Monday for the morning shows(on the 24 hour networks) to get their hands on the story. If no word is out by 9am EST, then it doesn't exist.
edited 24th Jul '11 12:19:53 AM by Swish
What? No! This kills the entire point of having checks and balances in our system. Way too easy to throw the system into chaos with this.
The emotions of others can seem like such well guarded mysteries, people 8egin to 8elieve that's how their own emotions should 8e treated.All I can say is FUCK. NO.
If this is true (that's still not clear) it is the duty of everyone in the United States who cares about a balanced government to do everything in their power to stop this.
"This thread has gone so far south it's surrounded by nesting penguins. " — MadrugadaYeah that's...God, no.
Why am I not surprised to see Boehner behind this. Someone fire that man.
...out of a cannon, into the sun?
In all seriousness, this certainly seems like a terrible, terrible idea. Hopefully it's either fake or deemed unconstitutional.
They lost me. Forgot me. Made you from parts of me. If you're the One, my father's son, what am I supposed to be?Maybe this is proposed to make Americans then hate this Super-Congress so much all Federal government is abolished to prevent an uprising of the people?
I mean, why the FUCK would the Republicans propose something that basically changes the US government into a rip-off of Soviet Russia's Communist government? Just. What. The. Fuck?
"That said, as I've mentioned before, apart from the helmet, he's not exactly bad looking, if a bit...blood-drenched." - juancarlosWhat in the blue fuck are they thinking? What moron(s) suggested this?
Who watches the watchmen?..Its times like this I become more and more convinced that the constant brinksmanship politics in washington has removed anyone from Power in the republican party who'se actually taken a course in political theory.
Note that the Democrats are apparently also behind this.
Oh, I'm aware. But then, half the democratic party is conservative too, and always has been outside the minds of the iduiots who think democrats are actually hard right.
In short, this only delays the execution. Now, besides causing a financial crisis, they'll also jeopardize the rest of the USA. Friggin' Genius.
Ossama Bin laden must be laughing with the fishes about the irony.
"That said, as I've mentioned before, apart from the helmet, he's not exactly bad looking, if a bit...blood-drenched." - juancarlos
Oh please. Osama already won roughly about the time our response to 9/11 was to create the Patriot Act and tighten security in ridiculous places out of misplaced nationalism and racism against Muslims.
I also find it hilarious some of the plans the republicans have already came up with include screwing over anyone with retirement savings. which means even the semi-rich and middle class are boned. Its incredibly telling that two things they'd want to gut with this system are Mortgages and Tax benefits on retirement savings. Which'd do hilarious damage to small business owners. You know. the JOB CREATORS they babble so much about protecting.
edited 24th Jul '11 2:12:45 AM by Midgetsnowman
If this somehow passes, there's no way in hell it'll avoid being declared unconstitutional. What I think will happen is that it'll get voted down, and then the Republicans will have a new talking point about how the Democrats prevented the passage of a "perfectly reasonable" reform.
That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something AwfulI still maintain that Congress is the BIGGEST collection of lead paint chip freebasing idiots in recent history.
Sad, to see our nation brought so low by bunch of jackasses...
edited 24th Jul '11 2:23:38 AM by MarkVonLewis
Am I the only one that doesn't think that Super Congress will be any better or worse than normal congress? It's not like anyone in congress is really accountable as is-they just appeal to their base.
But the real thing is, who would propose the Super Congress? It's evenly split 6/6, regardless of who won what election. It's like the Republicans are openly saying "Hey guys, we're afraid we're going to lose the house again next election, wanna play nice?"
Though I can concede the importance of not defaulting. If nothing else, it's an easy way to say "Fuck you" too the tea party.
Fuck. No. Anything with power not explicitly defined in the Constitution is an enemy of the People of the United States and the Constitution of the United States.
"Allah may guide their bullets, but Jesus helps those who aim down the sights."
So far, only the Huffington Post has reported on this, however, it is quite detailed.
This "Super Congress," composed of members of both chambers and both parties, isn't mentioned anywhere in the Constitution, but would be granted extraordinary new powers. Under a plan put forth by Senate Minority Leader Mitch Mc Connell (R-Ky.) and his counterpart Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), legislation to lift the debt ceiling would be accompanied by the creation of a 12-member panel made up of 12 lawmakers — six from each chamber and six from each party.
Legislation approved by the Super Congress — which some on Capitol Hill are calling the "super committee" — would then be fast-tracked through both chambers, where it couldn't be amended by simple, regular lawmakers, who'd have the ability only to cast an up or down vote. With the weight of both leaderships behind it, a product originated by the Super Congress would have a strong chance of moving through the little Congress and quickly becoming law. A Super Congress would be less accountable than the system that exists today, and would find it easier to strip the public of popular benefits. Negotiators are currently considering cutting the mortgage deduction and tax credits for retirement savings, for instance, extremely popular policies that would be difficult to slice up using the traditional legislative process.
House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) has made a Super Congress a central part of his last-minute proposal, multiple news reports and people familiar with his plan say. A picture of Boehner's proposal began to come into focus Saturday evening: The debt ceiling would be raised for a short-term period and coupled with an equal dollar figure of cuts, somewhere in the vicinity of a trillion dollars over ten years. A second increase in the debt ceiling would be tied to the creation of a Super Congress that would be required to find a minimum amount of spending cuts. Because the the elevated panel would need at least one Democratic vote, it would be presumably include at least some revenue, though, if it's anything like the deals on the table today, would likely be heavily slanted toward spending cuts. Or, as Obama said of the deal he was offering Republicans before Boehner walked out, "If it was unbalanced, it was unbalanced in the direction of not enough revenue."
Republicans, however, are looking to force a second debt ceiling fight as part of the package, despite the Democratic rejection of the plan. Under the Republican plan, lawmakers would need to weigh in on the debt ceiling during the heat of the presidential election, a proposal Democrats reject as risky to the nation's credit rating. "We expressed openness to two stages of cuts, but not to a short-term debt limit extension," a Democratic aide close to the negotiations said. "Republicans only want the debt ceiling extended as far as the cuts in each tranch. That means we’ll be right back where we are today a few months down the road. We are not a Banana Republic. You don’t run America like that."
The aide said that Democrats are open to a series of cuts as well as a Super Congress, but only if the debt ceiling is raised sufficiently so that it pushes past the election. "Our proposal tonight was, do two tranches of cuts, but raise the debt ceiling through 2012 right now, though the Mc Connell process would be one way," said the aide, leaving open the possibility that Boehner could craft a new process and distinguish it from Mc Connell's, which the Tea Party despises as a dereliction of duty. "Do that now with a package of cuts, and have the joint committee" — the Super Congress — "report out a package that would be the second tranch. Republicans rejected that, and continued to push a short-term despite the fact that Reid, Pelosi and Obama all could not have been clearer that they will not support a short-term increase. A short term risks some of the same consequences as outright failure to raise the ceiling — downgraded credit rating, stocks plunge, interest rates spike, etc. It is unclear why Republicans have made this their sticking point."
Boehner spokesman Michael Steel argued that the inability to come to a larger deal so far left a short-term extension as an "inevitable" option. "For months, we have laid out our principles to pass a bill that fulfills the president's request to increase the debt limit beyond the next election. We have passed a debt limit increase with the reforms the American people demand, the 'Cut, Cap, and Balance' bill. The Democrats who run Washington have refused to offer a plan," he said in a statement. "Now, as a result, a two-step process is inevitable. Like the president and the entire bipartisan, bicameral congressional leadership, we continue to believe that defaulting on the full faith and credit of the United States is not an option."
Obama has shown himself to be a fan of the commission approach to cutting social programs and entitlements. Shortly after taking office, Obama held a major conference on deficit reduction and subsequently created, by executive order, The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. The White House made two telling appointments to chair the commission: The first was former Sen. Alan Simpson (R-Wy.), a well known and ill informed critic of Social Security who earned notoriety by suggesting, among other things, that the American government had become "a milk cow with 310 million tits!" His Democratic appointment was even more indicative of whose interests took priority, former Sen. Erskine Bowles (D-N.C.). Bowles is a member of Morgan Stanley's board of directors; an adviser to Carousel Capital, a private equity firm; and is a director of Cousins Properties Incorporated, a firm with significant investments in commercial and mixed-use real estate.
Simpson and Bowles, unsurprisingly, produced a report recommending corporate and high-end tax cuts, along with cuts to Social Security, Medicare, veterans' benefits and a host of other social programs.
The commission needed 14 of 18 members to approve the plan in order for it to advance to Congress for a vote. The commission fell short, but did win a majority.
Proponents of slashing spending won't make the same mistake with a new Super Congress. Only a simple majority will be necessary.
I find this simply awful, but I am making this thread to discuss the implications of the Super Congress in the debt negotiations and beyond.
Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry