Would you lie to your kid about santa?

I wouldn't tell my kids anything about Santa, but when they inevitably hear about it from their friends at school, I would be all, "Well let's examine the evidence, shall we?" I'd let the kid figure out for him/herself the impossibility of one guy getting to all those houses by himself. Maybe we'd test it in the end by staying up together and waiting for Santa to show up. I'd probably get my husband to play the part and wait for the kid to first believe for a second, then figure out it's Dad. I think this way, they get the truth, but it's not handed to them on a silver plate. Plus, they're taught how to think, and will be excited to stay up past midnight. It keeps the fun but makes it more honest.

Yes. I will tell them about Santa. When they ask "But is it true?", I will lie. When they ask "But is it really, really, really true?". I will confess.

edited 13th Jul '11 12:34:49 AM by Trotzky

Semi-Thread Hop (I read the first page): I don't know if anyone said this on page 2, but...let's just say being Jewish makes this pretty easy. My kids probably wouldn't care that much, and if cultural osmosis got them wondering (and inevitably it would, because all this darn holiday stuff is everywhere) and they asked...well, I wouldn't lie to them then. Because I don't think much is at stake. Because we'd be celebrating Hanukkah instead anyway!

@What cityofmist said on the previous page about nearly everyone celebrating Christmas: With American Jews, it seems to me that the split between those who don't celebrate Christmas and those who do is about even. With those who do, it's often because one spouse is a convert. My family is just not really that big on celebrations most of the time, or the whole ridiculous "festival of commerce" vibe. Even our Hanukkah was never very much of a big deal, especially...well roughly about when I hit high school, the presents tapered off dramatically.

edited 12th Jul '11 5:04:52 PM by frog753

This. The celebration of Christ's birth is the main immovable feast of the liturgical year. It doesn't matter if the date is historically inaccurate.

As for Santa, I've said it before. I'll tell my kids that St. Nicholas used to go around delivering gifts to all the good boys and girls. There also used to elves, griffins, dragons, Olympians, and all manner of magical beings. Then Isaac Newton concentrated all the magic on Earth and took it to Heaven when he died, leaving the world prosaic and dependent on the science he left behind.

Isaac Newton was an asshole then!

Yup, and I'm a friend of his daughter. She goes to my school, actually.

Would I tell them that a fat man from way up north flies in every year on his reindeer to bring them presents? I don't know. But I would definitely tell them Santa Claus exists, because he does.

Santa Claus is that spirit of humanity's inherent goodness, the desire to bring joy to everyone, even those you don't know, for nothing in return, just out of the goodness of your heart. There's a little bit of Santa Claus spirit in all of us, and around there's some sort of magic in the air around Christmas time that tends to bring it out in full force. The spirit of Santa Claus is something we should never stop believing in, no matter how old we get.

This post reminded me, after I make them figure everything out for themselves, when they're old enough, I'll read Hogfather with them and watch the miniseries. How do you markup Hogfather, guys? Thanks.

edited 13th Jul '11 9:02:36 AM by OnTheOtherHandle

Discworld / {{ Hogfather }} (minus the spaces) gets you Hogfather.

edited 12th Jul '11 11:55:43 PM by dmboogie

No, because I don't want kids...

Uh hypothetically?

No, because Santa (Saint Nicolas: Patron Saint of almost everything) is largely a Catholic creation and I wouldn't raise them with Catholic beleifs.

I don't belive Santa is real, but why does everyone here say he obviously doesn't exist? Whenever there's a discussion of God there's usually at least some who belive in him.

Well, simply because it is obvious. Is it possible that a fat old man on a reindeer-pulled flying sleigh can bring presents to kids around the world every Christmas (or New Year's, depending on the country) night? Have you ever stayed until midnight and seen that there is no Santa? Is it so obvious that parents are buying the presents?

At least here he supposedly gives them only to good children. The children who stay up and don't see Santa/have only parents giving them presents aren't good enough.

Edit: the flying sleigh is the only signifigant problem I can see. Plus there are multiple: the North Pole one, the Korvatunturi one... Aren't there others at least in Russia and Canada?

edited 13th Jul '11 6:37:17 AM by Qeise

Because "Santa" has a verifiable past as a fictional character through history.

As does God. I belive in neither, just pointing out how one is regarded as obviously fictional while the other has signifigant support.

Not really. "Santa" can be clearly linked to being based on "Saint" Nicholas and the other parts of his mythos also have noted orgins.

edited 13th Jul '11 6:47:55 AM by deuxhero

God is usually presented as a metaphysical force, which makes his existence somewhat plausible, while Santa is presented as something mundane.

This one is not about to lie to her children, period. She would treat it as just another tale, one that even adults currently use to keep themselves and their children entertained.

Exactly. I think it's perfectly possible to keep the fun and wonder in the world without lying to them about anything. "Lying" by omission (such as neglecting to mention things like torture and genocide until they're ready) is perfectly acceptable, though, as far as I'm concerned.

I wouldn't tell my unborn hypothetical kids that they're receiving presents from a flying fat man in a red suit. I would tell them that the presents come from me because I love them.

What annoys me (and probably some other people) is that some people pretend that Christmas is a holiday for family and generosity while at the same time we're teaching children that their value is measured in how many gifts they get. It's teaching them to be greedy. It doesn't seem right.

I think that if I have kids I wouldn't raise them to expect to receive things on Christmas but rather to go and do good deeds for others, like helping in a soup kitchen or homeless shelter.

You're right. It seems like the whole Santa phenomenon is teaching children that if they're "good" they'll get stuff, rather than teaching them that Good Feels Good.

I already posted this in the "Lies to Children" thread, but I think it fits even better here, so apologies for cross-posting. Besides, I expect to get more push-back here:

"No offense, but it sounds like most of you aren't parents. I have two children, one a boy of 5, and I can assure you that you do not control what they think or believe. Let me just repeat that, you are not in control. All you can do is encourage your child to develop, not what to believe.

I don't know how many times I have tried to tell my son that monsters aren't real. There are no vampires, ghosts or spooks in the closet. He adamantly refuses to believe me. In fact, he begs me to tell him that they are real so relentlessly that I most often just give in. The psychologists tell us that children need to believe these fantasies to give them a means to externalize their fears, which they are not sophisticated enough to verbalize. In the same vein, my children need to believe that there is a magical perfect parent out there somewhere (Santa, God, whoever) so that they can process the fact that I myself am, in their eyes, so far from perfect. Again, they simply do not possess the capacity to tell me in what ways I should be a better parent (and I probably couldn't give them what they want even if they could). These fantasies appear to serve a purpose, and I am just going to let them grow out of them naturally, rather than engage in a futile fight against them."

That's because kids aren't complete retards and can check to see if something actually feels good. It's like telling children spinach is delicious. They'll try it and realize you're a liar.

I'd present the Christmas tradition of giving presents to loved ones as just that. When my kid tells me there's this big red dude giving presents out, I'd pretend I'd never heard of him before. Then we'd both eagerly accept it and wait for him all night long on Christmas Eve, having a grand old time while being disappointed that the red dude didn't show up.

"Well, offspring, it looks like either your friends are liars or that red dude doesn't like us. Doesn't matter either way. Let's open some presents."

Not true. Spinach is delicious, and my children agree. Now if only I could get the other one to like broccoli the way his younger brother does*