Nov 2023 Mod notice:
There may be other, more specific, threads about some aspects of US politics, but this one tends to act as a hub for all sorts of related news and information, so it's usually one of the busiest OTC threads.
If you're new to OTC, it's worth reading the Introduction to On-Topic Conversations
and the On-Topic Conversations debate guidelines before posting here.
Rumor-based, fear-mongering and/or inflammatory statements that damage the quality of the thread will be thumped. Off-topic posts will also be thumped. Repeat offenders may be suspended.
If time spent moderating this thread remains a distraction from moderation of the wiki itself, the thread will need to be locked. We want to avoid that, so please follow the forum rules when posting here.
In line with the general forum rules, 'gravedancing' is prohibited here. If you're celebrating someone's death or hoping that they die, your post will get thumped. This rule applies regardless of what the person you're discussing has said or done.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
I have serious doubts about your opposition to his plans if you're not willing to vote for Clinton to try and stop him. Or if you really do believe what you say, then I have doubts about your grasp on reality.
Oh really when?
The would-be novelist
This is getting ugly really quick.
Non Indicative Username
Public Servant
I don't think there is anything wrong with Bense's position. In fact it seems perfectly fine to demand a firm principled character from your legislators.
Even when you do vote for a candidate, you effectively gave up that right when you decided that it was acceptable that only representatives are permitted to govern and legislate for you.
"It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few."
Lack of honesty was just the most obvious similarities between Trump and Clinton.
Come now, does anyone really believe that if Trump is elected that there will be actual internment camps? Or a wall, for that matter? All those decent Republicans and Democrats in congress, not to mention the Supreme Court, will just roll over and let Trump fulfill every one of his campaign promises?
No, what I fear is that he'll make entirely different real blunders once elected.
United Earth
Sanders has lied quite a few times. Mostly it's exaggerating how bad the US has it, how bad his opponents are, and covering his campaign's ass when they mess up (specifically, when they lie).
So yeah. Still, those are fairly benign as far as lies go; they mostly don't incite hatred. Mostly. Neither do clinton's, those are mostly about playing herself up as more heroic or victimized than she really is.
Trump is like epic-grade hatemonger. Most of his lies are about "hte enemy".
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Lost in Space
Also, I'm going to call [citation needed] on Hillary Clinton committing a felony. I don't remember that being in the record anywhere. Has she been convicted? Served prison time?
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
@LeGarcon, I think in this instance you have it backwards.
Think about it like this: Bense was going to vote conservative/Republican, but now won't due to Trump. Even if he doesn't vote Democrat, it's still one less vote for the Republican.
edited 4th May '16 10:48:48 AM by sgamer82
Vampire Hunter
It doesn't really matter who wins this election since even if Trump loses, he's still going to be a Goldwater-esque candidate... He loses huge against the sanity of Clinton, but his nationalist, isolationist, xenophobic views will come to define one of the only two major political parties in America.
Wizard Needs Food Badly
Realistically, what good would my voting for Clinton (if I could stomach such a thought) do? I live in Utah. The chance that Utah's vote will go for Clinton is hovering right round about 0.0%. Bill Clinton came in third in Utah in 1992, for goodness' sake.
The would-be novelist
I'd normally love to see the Republican Party go down in flames, but then I realize the Democrats need rivals to not become dictators.
Non Indicative Username
Well, will Utah take Trump over Clinton? If memory serves, some polling data indicated it was not a given.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
No, she has never been convicted. She has proven very effective at covering her criminal acts up, even convincing many people that she is perfectly innocent and it's all a conspiracy by her political enemies.
The would-be novelist
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You are starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist.
I remember someone posting here that there was a decent chance of Hilary winning some Southern states if Trump was her opponent. Anyone know where that came from or if it applies to other normally solid Republican states?
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Really? Come on man.
....
Do you have any idea how utterly insane this statement is? If you said this in a courtroom, you'd be the laughing stock of your entire firm.
New Survey coming this weekend!
United Earth
They need rivals not to split into Neoliberal and Progressive parties, which I believe would be a good thing for everyone if the Conservatives, Religious, and Racists sunk into irrelevance. Although I'm guessing Neoliberals and (Neo)Conservatives would get along, perhaps enough to form a new Pro-Business Party?
@"Lack of evidence is evidence of a coverup!" Now you're talking like a conspiracy theorist.
edited 4th May '16 10:58:19 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Heh, looking at CNN on TV right now and the headline is "Sanders wins Indiana, but math is against him".
Given the criticisms about his economic plans this struck me as humorous.
LSBK: Wiki's a good place to start, I think. Though we're still six months out from the actual general election and alot of these polls are several months old, so...caveat emptor, I guess.
There is plenty of evidence that Hillary Clinton has committed felonies, told lies about her own conduct, and gotten away with it. I mentioned several incidents in an earlier post, along with some things she lied about but which weren't really criminal behavior.
Party Crasher
Clinton voted for the Iraq War and had a hand in the Libya debacle. She is no saint.
It is sometimes an appropriate response to reality to go insane.
I'd advise you not to waste your breath; for one, you'll probably get IP banned from tvtropes if you keep on going, and secondly, there's nothing you can do to change people's minds one way or another here.
Which isn't surprising given her foreign policy role model and a close associate of the Clintons just so happens to be one of the biggest Karma Houdinis of the 20th century.
edited 4th May '16 11:03:57 AM by CaptainCapsase
The would-be novelist
Didn't she apologize for that? Also, we are not votiing for saints, we are voting for politicians.
If not the ballot, Bense, then what?