Not a genre : Shonen Genre

@Discar: More accurately, they are subcategories of the greater medium (i.e. "submediums") of "Animation" (which includes all animated works from all over the world)... as is Western Animation. Both are effectively the sole major Animation submediums in the international market at this time.

Yeah, what he said.

edited 11th Jul '11 12:58:24 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Technically animation and comic books are the media. Anime and manga are... sub-media? I suppose we can say they're culturally media in their own right.

Ninja'd.

edited 11th Jul '11 12:59:21 PM by Catalogue

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

[I shan't repeat it for fear of being thumped again, but I just want to note that the contents of my previous post were much less shocking than whatever you're imagining.]

Anyway.

First step: Revert those custom titles that have been spackled all over the wiki the past week.

Second step: Crowner.

Yeah, the overarching supermedium is literature, which births the comic-style form that we know in the West as comic books and comic strips and which is manga in Japan, while Animation births cartoons in the West and anime in Japan. The same things essentially, but two different styles with unique cultural influences and forms for each.

edited 11th Jul '11 1:02:11 PM by Willbyr

For what it's worth, our mirror merged east and west under "animation". Perhaps infamously so, since they address the issue right in the front page.

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Let's not talk about the mirror.

And yeah, I say it's crowner time. The choices should be Shounen Demographic, Shounen Genre, and just Shounen. Any objections? EDIT: Not counting romanization objections.

Custom title gets smashed no matter what, unless there's enough discussion we need a single-prop crowner for that.

edited 11th Jul '11 1:13:59 PM by Discar

Can't have just shonen. Means absolutely nothing to the vast majority of wiki readers.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

Agreed. Shōnen Demographic adds clarity.

Visit my contributor page to assist with the "I Like The Cheeses" project!

I support "Shounen Demographic", with "Shonen Demographic" as a redirect.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

If that's route we're going to have to go, then adding "Demographic" would be the best route. Shoujo and Seinen would have to have the same as well, if I'm not mistaken.

edited 11th Jul '11 1:27:38 PM by Willbyr

Now that people are against custom-titling, will we still have the custom-title macron, or...?

The words above are to be read as if they are narrated by Morgan Freeman.

Using custom titles to add punctuation—you know, the actual point of the system—is fine. Its when its used to force people to use an awkward title that they get angry.

Using the custom titler to add a macron is different from using the custom title to make "shonen" display as "shonen genre" or "shonen demographic". The latter causes far more confusion than the former does.

Hey, it's not just anime/manga fans. Brad Bird (director of The Iron Giant, The Incredibles, and Ratatouille) has threatened to punch the next person who calls animation a genre to his face.

Actually, upon futher consideration, I have a problem with matching Shonen Demographic to the current page as defined. If I understand correctly, we've just been told that Shonen is used to describe marketing everything from manga to medical products, yet the page is specifically about, and I quote:

"Manga and anime aimed primarily at pre-teen and teenaged boys."

This isn't a page about Japanese boys and the characteristics thereof.

However, Shonen Genre does not work for the same reason, for the same reason that we do not use "Young Adult Genre" but instead talk about Young Adult And Childrens Literature or Children's Television.

Instead, "Shonen Anime and Manga" would be the most precise, most accurate title that can be used. However, it would certainly be unwieldy to use the full name in every example. Therefor, "Shonen", "Sounen", "Shonen Anime", "Shonen Manga" and should all be acceptable redirects.

Any problems with this?

Yes. Having those redirects will lead to impenetrable text. The prevention of which is the entire thrust of this effort.

Goal: Clear, Concise and Witty

Okay, then make Shonen Manga and Shonen Anime the only acceptable redirects. Surely it improves clarity and accuracy to make it specific that we are talking about classifications of Manga and Anime rather than a genre of... what?

One other thing we might as well establish here: Isn't "shounen" a better romanization? I've only taken one year of Japanese thus far, but it seems more correct to me.

edited 11th Jul '11 1:54:18 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

For the record, wikipedia uses "Shōnen." I don't particularly care either way, I'm just pointing it out.

Could you please provide examples of impenetrable text as it is being used?

That version is sometimes used, but I've never liked it when transliterations use characters that aren't actually a part of the destination language.

edited 11th Jul '11 1:59:21 PM by INUH

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Traditionally, rather than using the custom title to blindly search-and-replace the text—bizarrely-worded resulting sentences be damned!—we go through all the wicks and actually replace them in the page markup with the new article title, rewording sentences as necessary to make the new title fit.

No, that only applies to the general concept of "demographic groups/profiles". Specific demographic groups/profiles may or may not apply to only a specific collection of fields; Shounen, for example, is (AFAIK) limited to Japanese animation (aka Anime), comics (aka Manga), light novels, and video games (including visual novels).

And could someone clarify what is meant by making Shounen Manga and Shounen Anime the only acceptable redirects? 'Cause that phrasing has unfortunate implications...

edited 11th Jul '11 2:57:42 PM by MarqFJA

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

I don't think that's correct, as the word literally just means "young male." It can be used in any context that would require talking about young males.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story

Yeah, but excluding legal terminology, the publishers and fans in Japan only use it in the contexts I had mentioned. Western publisher-importers also do the same.

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, I think its use as a demographic is mostly limited to talking about media.

Infinite Tree: an experimental story