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Michael So that's what this does Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
So that's what this does
#651: Aug 13th 2012 at 6:36:15 AM

That really depends on whether there really is political fallout from having allowed this investigation to go ahead.

If Cameron makes big losses over it then Murdoch's ilk can use that as proof that opposing the media is a mistake and tighten their stranglehold on our politicians still further.

TheBatPencil from Glasgow, Scotland Since: May, 2011 Relationship Status: I'm just a hunk-a, hunk-a burnin' love
#652: Aug 17th 2012 at 9:01:15 AM

A former editor at the News of the World Scotland has been arrested and charged in connection with the perjury trial of former MSP Tommy Sheridan.

Douglas Wight, 39, has been charged with perjury, conspiracy to hack telephones and multiple charges of conspiracy to obtain personal data.

And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#653: Aug 17th 2012 at 9:43:24 AM

What's the chance that the media in general will back off on the crazy stuff if people like the him end up with serious prison sentences? I mean the tabloids in Britain scare the Hell out of me but perjury and conspiracy might put him away for over a decade... might be a good idea to make an example of him.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TamH70 Since: Nov, 2011 Relationship Status: Faithful to 2D
#654: Aug 23rd 2012 at 9:21:19 PM

And now, the Sun has decided to publish the nekkid pictures of Prince Harry, on page one of today's issue.

Holy crap.

Expect the Sun to close by, say, next Friday.

Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#655: Aug 24th 2012 at 2:45:50 AM

[up]I 'unno. It's a ballsy move, but they could win big just as easily as they lose big.

What's precedent ever done for us?
TheWanderer Student of Story from Somewhere in New England (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Student of Story
#656: Aug 25th 2012 at 10:04:13 AM

decided to publish the nekkid pictures

It's a ballsy move

Excuse me, I have to go and chortle to myself in a corner for about 10 minutes straight. [lol]

Anyway, it does seem like The Sun is just asking for trouble with that one. Sounds like it would be close to a publication's version of Suicide by Cop.

edited 25th Aug '12 10:04:30 AM by TheWanderer

| Wandering, but not lost. | If people bring so much courage to this world...◊ |
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#657: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:32:25 AM

Murdoch's been caught on tape condoning police bribes.

This could get interesting.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#658: Jun 15th 2013 at 2:33:59 AM

[up] ...and that isn't the least of his problems — a Divorce and News International's division into two separate companies, aside.

Keep Rolling On
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#659: Jun 15th 2013 at 3:03:47 AM

GOTCHA!

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#660: Oct 30th 2013 at 8:26:10 AM

So Brooks, Coulson, and company are now in court, and it looks like it's going to be the trial of the century. Here's some updates from Twitter:

Edis on Charge 7 "prosecuting say..... material police would have wanted were cleared out of Brooks' country home and taken to NI offices"

Brooks conspired with her assistant Cheryl Carter to remove her journalist notebooks from the archive and they have disappeared.

Jury are told on the Friday before the No TW closed Rebekah Brooks' PA, Cheryl Carter removed her journalistic notebooks from an archive.

Edis: she did something similar with husband Charles, Mark Hanna, head of security and others, clearing computers out of her country home.

Edis: "Material was collected from their London flat and taken to the same place.' (NI offices at Thomas More Square

Edis "This was material in possession of CEO of the company.... and would have been relevant to police inquiry."

Mr Edis: "That is a classic case of conspiracy to pervert the course of justice, the prosecution say."

Edis "This was discovered as a result of an accident which was rather bad luck for the conspirators."

The jury are told Mrs Brooks' notebooks have never been found.

Mr Edis says Rebekah Brooks, Cheryl Carter, Charles Brooks and Mark Hanna are charged with the perverting the course of justice charge.

BREAKING: Miskiw, Thurlbeck, Weatherup - News Editors have all pleaded guilty to count one

Glenn Mulcaire has pleaded guilty to hacking phone of Milly Dowler, Crown tell jury.

Greg Miskiw, Neville Thurlbeck and James Weatherup - No W staffers have pleaded guilty to phone hacking conspiracy we can now reveal

Edis "That explains why you're not trying anyone in that first count list... and this is proof of a conspiracy"

Edis: Greg Miskiw, Neville Thurlbeck and James Weatherup, NOTW newsdesk Editors, have also pleaded guilty to hacking conspiracy

Three No W news editors have admitted phone hacking, say Crown - Miskiw, Thurlbeck and Weatherup.

Jury told that private investigator Glenn Muclaire has pleaded guilty this year to hacking phones, so he doesn't appear at this trial.

Reuters provides confirmation.

edited 30th Oct '13 8:29:29 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#661: Oct 30th 2013 at 3:59:45 PM

You're fuckin' nicked me old beauty!

It's difficult to know what to say, really. Other than to laugh at Murdoch's misfortune and be glad that his corrupt practices are finally coming to light. Still not sold on the Royal Charter, though, and I worry that the police will be overstepping their authority here, both in an attempt to look responsive to the public and to try and "atone" for their own record of collusion.

The Miskiws, Thurlbecks, Mulcaires, Murdochs, and Brooks of this world might well be bang to rights, but the little rank and file footsoldiers might be less obviously implicated.

Politics has come to a very worrying juncture when the state is rounding up journalists. Things are even worse when it isn't immediately clear that this is a bad thing. This whole affair worries me.

OTOH, this could be an example of why the Royal Charter isn't necessary: Pressmen break law without public interest justification, pressmen arrested, pressmen punished. Simples.

edited 30th Oct '13 4:02:54 PM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#662: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:01:12 PM

The problem is that it's very tricky to balance the freedom of the press with the rights of the people.

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#663: Oct 30th 2013 at 4:16:54 PM

David Mitchell voices concerns about press freedom...

One of the joys of cricket as a spectator sport is that, every so often, you get to see people in a role for which they are not at all well suited. This is rare in professional sport where, in general, all participants are doing something they're so unthinkably good at, displaying such unimaginable levels of skill, that onlookers' attempts at empathy for the players' specific aims and problems are rendered absurd. Very few of us haranguing Andy Murray for an errant backhand from the comfort of our living rooms do so without a slight twinkle of self-mockery. But that's not always needed with cricket, because bowlers have to bat.

Some bowlers are very good at batting but others are really not. Many are not nearly good enough to do so professionally and a rare few, despite all the practice they put in, display less aptitude than an average member of the public. And yet they sometimes have to face top-class professional bowling. This can be brilliantly funny and nail-bitingly dramatic and occasionally, in a way even HBO hasn't mastered, a combination of the two. When a team is in a tight spot and a gangly fast bowler is required to score some runs, or conserve his wicket, in the face of an opposing fast bowler's most ferocious deliveries, it's like a slapstick comedy, an exhilarating thriller with an everyman protagonist, and a classic episode of The Generation Game combined. It makes for enthralling viewing.

Another entertaining figure flailing against a pace attack with no observable hand-eye co-ordination is the Earl of Cardigan. The 60-year-old aristocrat is currently living on benefits in a lodge on his family estate, of which he is struggling to regain control. He's just had a baby with his second wife, but his daughter by his first marriage has a restraining order out on him and he's also not in contact with his son – "which is a great sadness to me," he says. But his main concern is to stop his estate's trustees from selling Tottenham House, the ancestral home. "We built it in 1820 and have owned the dirt it was built on since the Normans… It is my job to hand it on to the next generation" – if they deign to get back in touch.

As 31st hereditary warden of Savernake Forest, this is a role Cardigan was born to – but sadly only in the literal not the idiomatic sense, as he seems to be useless at it. It's difficult to be sure, since the aristocracy are so assiduous in compensating for the material advantages their children receive by giving them psyche-wreckingly unpleasant upbringings, but one can't help suspecting that the current earl has played a good hand rather poorly over the last few decades. Still, you can't question his sincerity.

The posh don't have a monopoly on ill-fitting roles: I don't think Paul Dacre is particularly posh and Rupert Murdoch, being Australian, is off the whole posh/not posh graph. Yet this unlikely pair are the most prominent in a band of have-a-go heroes who are charged with protecting Britain's ancient principle of freedom of speech. They could hardly be worse suited to the task. They're extremely controversial, somewhat shadowy figures and few believe they would act out of anything other than ruthless self-interest. Now, obviously, their self-interest and the public interest aren't necessarily in conflict merely because they have been on numerous occasions in the past. But that's a delicate argument to make and neither is renowned for his diplomacy.

Fun though their crackpot quest sounds, the situation is potentially grave. All three main political parties have collaborated with a pressure group that campaigns against press intrusion on a form of regulation that is underpinned by parliamentary authority – their proposed royal charter could only be amended by two-thirds majorities in both houses – which means by politicians. It would definitely be giving politicians power over the press, maybe only in a small way, but certainly in an unprecedented way. And most of the press hate it.

"Well, they would, wouldn't they," you might say. "But there's a cross-party consensus in favour of it: all the politicians like it." Well, they would, wouldn't they, is my response. The press's own pitch of an alternative charter was turned down by a subcommittee of the privy council (the medieval body that deals with charters and privies and dragons and the like). This particular subcommittee consisted solely of seven coalition ministers – so the plan was stopped by seven advocates of the alternative plan, seven government politicians. If that's how regulation of the press is to be conducted from now on, we all need to start shitting ourselves.

There's a general feeling that something had to be done about all the phone hacking and harassment but, as Ian Hislop said recently, things have been done: "They closed down the biggest newspaper in the country. Scores of people have been arrested… lots of people are being prosecuted. It's a big result." And the main issue that people were shocked by – phone hacking – was already illegal. The police failure to enforce that law shouldn't really have any bearing on the regulation of what the press is permitted to print.

The trouble is that the press, particularly the tabloid press, has made itself so loathed that they're difficult people to defend or sympathise with. Many of them deserved a comeuppance, so it's easy to focus on the nasty people having a nasty time and ignore the potentially disastrous collateral damage to our ancient freedom to say, write and print what we like without any permission or official sanction.

Murdoch and Dacre are bowlers desperately wielding bats, the last people the cause of freedom should be relying on. It would be fun to watch if I didn't care so much about the result. They're the worst possible poster boys for a free press but that doesn't mean they're wrong about this and we mustn't be distracted into seeing the debate tribally: "Whose gang are you in – the Daily Mail's or Milly Dowler's?" Many of the people currently deriving a living from the tabloid industry may well deserve ruin, but their unmerited prosperity is a price worth paying for the continued function of an accountable democracy.

... and Steve Coogan responds.

Dear David

I've been a big fan over the years, I've enjoyed your witty asides, acerbic observations, character acting and voiceovers. In fact, despite your ubiquity, you are consistently well above average. I never normally criticise fellow entertainers unless a) I respect them and b) they come out with ill-informed and superficial dross on a serious issue. I'm afraid that on this occasion you qualify.

Now I know we shouldn't expect forensic attention to detail from your column, as it is supposed to entertain as well as inform. As someone fairly experienced in comedy myself, I understand that you can make a few generalisations, exploiting the odd prejudice here and there for comic effect, but last week your cricketing anecdote and subsequent musings weren't up there with your most rib-tickling stuff. So I can only assume it's, er, what you actually think.

You hobble yourself from the outset by challenging something which no one is proposing: silencing Paul Dacre. No one is saying that, not Leveson, not Hacked Off, not the Royal Charter.

"Press freedom is essential for us," you say. Wow, you're really going out on a limb! No one disagrees: it's like saying you're anti-cancer. You seem to have bought into the reductive polarisation of a debate that most of the press frame in their own interests.

Leveson himself said that though parts of the press had "wreaked havoc with the lives of innocent people", this should not mean press freedom should be "jeopardised or that the press should be delivered into the arms of the state". To suggest it, he added, was to "grossly misrepresent" what had been happening over the 16 months of the inquiry.

Your description of Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre as "have-a-go heroes… charged with protecting Britain's ancient principle of freedom of speech" is laughable. They are protecting their freedom to profiteer by any means necessary.

Hacked Off, by contrast, isn't trying to please shareholders: no one is paying me to write this, David, we just don't like bullies. If Murdoch and Dacre on their white chargers with you in the background (probably a pikeman) were really about freedom of speech they would have covered the hacking scandal, which had celebrity, royals, politicians, criminals, conspiracy, murder victims – everything their papers love to cover. If they believed in freedom of speech they would have covered the inquiry into their own industry with a soupçon of balance instead of leading the great former Sunday Times editor, Sir Harry Evans, to say last week that "the exaggerations of some papers comparing Britain to Zimbabwe are so ridiculous, so self-interested as to destroy the very freedom of speech they claim to protect". Guess how many papers reported this? None.

You astonishingly describe the search for effective accountability by our democratically elected representatives and a judge-led inquiry (amazing that your long piece fails to mention Leveson once) as a "crackpot quest". The "quest" is not state regulation but yet another chance for self-regulation with an independent inspection body to make sure it is not the Press Complaints Commission all over again, which I'm sure you will agree, David, was rubbish.

You need a law to set it up, just like with the Judicial Appointments Commission which appoints judges and is totally independent. To satisfy the press's demand that there should not be a new press law, the prime minister imposed a Royal Charter. But this one can only be changed via a two-thirds majority vote in both Houses of Parliament. This prevents future governments watering things down to suck up to Dacre, Murdoch and Co. Sounds good to me.

You moan about seven privy councillors rejecting the press's own charter – which was the son of the PCC, business as usual. The government, supported by the opposition, along with most of the country (as demonstrated by successive polls) rejected it. Critical analysis of their dodgy proposal was never rebutted by any of their massed ranks of lawyers or lobbyists.

You see, when you get into the nitty-gritty of what they won't agree to, it all falls apart. Oh, and four of those privy councillors were Tories. Stephen Fry described their disposition best when he tweeted after the PM's response to Leveson: "It would seem David Cameron's address is no longer Number 10 Downing Street: it's now Flat 2, Rupert Murdoch's arse."

Let me give you an example of what the rubbish part of the press don't like about the very modest Royal Charter: equal prominence of apologies. Let's just suppose you read a headline, something really awful about you like, "David Mitchell likes to have sex with animals… small ones… a lot." (I know it's a bit annoying but multiply your irritation by a thousand and you may get a taste of what it was like to be Bristol landlord Chris Jefferies, who was accused – without a shred of evidence – of murdering Joanna Yeates.) Now let's say that you can demonstrate quite swiftly that the headline is untrue through personal testimonies (I would vouch for you) and CCTV footage. How would you feel if, after the paper did a mea culpa, they printed the correction/apology in a one-inch column on page 16? Happy? Or really, really happy? OK, now imagine you've been accused of pickpocketing the dead on a football field after a disaster. Just to sell more newspapers. Not so funny now is it?

There was a litany of abusive, exploitative behaviour heard by Leveson, of innocent people being monstered, none of which could remotely be described as being in the public interest. This goes way beyond the hacking scandal which took years to be uncovered, because even though it was widespread and known to be illegal, it was tolerated. Ditto the Motorman data-theft blagging scandal, where the personal details – including bank accounts– of thousands of people were illegally obtained and sold to the press.

You say "the failure of the police shouldn't have any bearing on the regulation of what the press is permitted to print". Regulation is not about what the press is permitted to print. It is proper enforcement of the industry's own code of practice. As Leveson's report said: "The board should not have the power to prevent publication of any material, by anyone, at any time." Have you not read it? Or are you just repeating something someone else has said?

You fail to point to a single line in the whole of Leveson or of the charter that would prevent investigative or public interest journalism. Or a single witness at Leveson arguing that it should. Or a single politician wanting to do so. Because there is none.

David, if your article were a schoolboy's essay, it would score highly for style. But it would be covered in red ink with frequent use of the word "sloppy", finishing with: "See me."

What's precedent ever done for us?
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#664: Oct 30th 2013 at 7:29:46 PM

The United Kingdom: Where the only people allowed to spy on you are the government. evil grin

Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#665: Oct 31st 2013 at 2:26:40 AM

[up][up]

Mitchell is more convincing.

I know you don't like him, Iaculus, but Nick Cohen's most recent Spectator blogs on the whole affair are worth reading.

EDIT: Murdoch staff turned to hacking in "dog-eat-dog" world.

They apparently hacked their rivals on other tabloids too. They're getting hammered. They also have a tough question to answer, namely: "how on earth could the editors pay £100,000 a year to Glenn Mulcaire without knowing what he did."

This'll be good.

edited 31st Oct '13 7:01:48 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#666: Oct 31st 2013 at 7:45:01 AM

[up]I had a flick-through, and they're mostly disingenuous scaremongering with a worrying lack of substance. He glosses over the very real abuses and invasions of privacy that the tabloid press have engaged in (phone-hacking and offering bounties for topless pics of fifteen-year-olds are non-crimes inflated by the police to justify their existence, apparently), spends more time whining about Coogan's tone than addressing his arguments. To give his own arguments weight, he engages in cheap and misleading rhetorical tricks, such as pointing to the expense of the investigation whilst neglecting to mention that it contains Operation Elveden, our largest ever investigation into police corruption (which is expensive and time-consuming at the best of times, for obvious reasons), and mentioning a relatively harmless incident involving a Sun journalist, then mentioning that that journalist was later arrested, without specifically mentioning that the two incidents were linked.

The best example of his weaselling is his description of the Paris Brown incident, casting the youth commissioner as an innocent martyr of thuggish, busybody policing. He describes comments like “OH MY GOD WILL YOU PIKEYS STOP NICKING THE FUCKING TRAIN TRACK METAL. I'm on a fucking replacement bus, fucking stupid moronic fucks” and “Everyone on Made In Chelsea looks like a fucking fag” as 'politically incorrect' and 'allegedly' racist and homophobic, and his idea that you should argue with bigots rather than punishing them ignores the fact that she was occupying a PR role as a police representative. Her job was all about image, and by failing to maintain that image, she had failed the requirements of her job. A firing was completely justified.

The idea of a rising conspiracy to crush our freedoms via Leveson does not bear much fruit in the real world. The original inquiry sank almost without trace, buried under apathy and naked cronyism, and the efforts to Do Something About It were feeble at best. Even the Royal Charter is more humiliating than truly restrictive - its biggest impact is in requiring papers to give retractions their proper prominence rather than burying them in the back pages.

I am uncomfortable with his and others' efforts to link the attacks on the Guardian with the News International investigation, as well. The Guardian and Leveson both exposed gross invasions of personal privacy by powerful organisations, and it is not hypocritical to think that both made a good point about how those organisations' practices should be amended simply because they went after different targets.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#667: Oct 31st 2013 at 7:48:57 AM

Oh, and the cat's finally out of the bag - the prosecution is confirming that Brooks and Coulson had a six-year affair.

edited 31st Oct '13 7:55:46 AM by Iaculus

What's precedent ever done for us?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#668: Oct 31st 2013 at 8:07:28 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing what the Sun and NotW wasn't criminal - but the fact that the criminal law provides a remedy for people like Steve Coogan is precisely the point. The Royal Charter and the chilling effects like arresting the reporter mentioned in Cohen's story are worrying. Newspapermen broke the criminal law and now the criminal law is punishing them. As for his "dishonesty", whether he was consciously so is debatable, since he likely just took the Press Gazette figures, but Operation Elveden is still a fraction of the cost of Weeting. Similarly, to say that the Royal Charter is inconsequential is absurd; coupled with the Crime & Courts Act 2013 it will preclude non-signees from recovering libel costs in court even if they win, and they may even have to pay their opponents' costs. Where does that leave people like Private Eye? Imagine if that had been in place during the Maxwell, Sutcliffe, and Goldsmith libel trials. Or the Guardian? IIRC, they were almost totally sunk by a libel case in The '90s.

And it is being practically forced upon the industry; look at Maria Miller's "sign up or else" threat. It also defines "publishing in the UK" as "targeted at an audience primarily in the UK"; which would mean the Guardian continuing its examination of the Snowden files from its New York bureau would be covered, as would the California-hosted Guido Fawkes blog.

Re: Paris Brown.

The idea that a 17 year old should be subject to a criminal investigation into tweets made when she was 15 years old (before she took the post) was absurd by any standards. A case could be made that she should have resigned or been fired for the impropriety. That prosecution was considered was ridiculous. Claiming all Paris Brown faced was a sacking is disingenuous.

Re: Coulson and Brooks.

Teehee. Have we heard anything about the Gawker story that was blocked in the UK caused such a rumpus earlier.

Also, is anyone actually signing the Royal Charter? I know the Spectator and the Telegraph are definitely out, the Mail, Sun, and Times have made comments that make signing an almost practical impossibility without looking ridiculous. The Express largely ignored it but gave their story a nasty headline. Not that it's just the right, the Mirror called it "the death warrant of press freedom", and the Grauniad wrote a critical editorial remarking that this government hasn't shown much good faith when it comes to openness, especially given their recent threat of court action, misuse of anti-terror legislation, and detention of David Miranda.

The FT and Indy didn't sign up to the independent regulator but have not made much comment, though I dimly recall someone saying the Independent would sign the Charter, which would make it a Royal Charter of...the Independent, my opinion of which I will express in audiovisual form.

EDIT: Aaaaaaaaaand the regionals are out.

edited 31st Oct '13 10:05:15 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Joeyjojo Happy New Year! from South Sydney: go the bunnies! Since: Jan, 2001
Happy New Year!
#669: Oct 31st 2013 at 3:50:57 PM

Barkey: The United Kingdom: Where the only people allowed to spy on you are the government.wink

Well it's a good job the USA would never do that isn't it?

hashtagsarestupid
midgetsnowman Since: Jan, 2010
#670: Oct 31st 2013 at 3:53:23 PM

[up]

Pft,

An america, everyone spies on you because corporations dont get in trouble for it,

Deadbeatloser22 from Disappeared by Space Magic (Great Old One) Relationship Status: Tsundere'ing
#671: Oct 31st 2013 at 4:00:19 PM

I think this is going to turn into "we're going down, so who can we drag down with us?"

"Yup. That tasted purple."
Zendervai Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy from St. Catharines Since: Oct, 2009 Relationship Status: Wishing you were here
Visiting from the Hoag Galaxy
#672: Oct 31st 2013 at 4:38:33 PM

[up][up] Google spies on most of the planet. I mean, what do you think Streetview is? The difference is that they're really obvious about it.

edited 31st Oct '13 4:38:55 PM by Zendervai

Not Three Laws compliant.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#673: Nov 1st 2013 at 2:48:24 AM

[up][up]I doubt it. The guilty pleas have been relatively few and far between from around Brooks and Coulson's pay-gread, which suggests that, sadly, nothing could be pinned on the Murdochs.

What's precedent ever done for us?
Achaemenid HGW XX/7 from Ruschestraße 103, Haus 1 Since: Dec, 2011 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
HGW XX/7
#674: Nov 1st 2013 at 3:43:57 AM

[up]

Rupert Murdoch probably maintained enough distance that pinning anything on him would be almost impossible. All he had to do is not talk about what exactly he wants done, just in general terms: If he said: "Do some digging" that can mean anything he says it does: BLAM! Reasonable doubt. It's the same problem the police have pinning anything on big crime bosses. Or the same reason we've never found a written order from Hitler for the Holocaust; all you need to do is make what you want done in a general way clear and let the subordinates interpret it in the way you want. No, Rupert Murdoch is not Hitler and I'm not making a moral comparison, but it's an illustrative example of the kind of evasiveness that can shield the upper echelons from legal responsibility. Even the one time he's been caught off the record, after Private Eye published a transcript of him talking to bailed hacks before their trial, isn't enough to pin anything on him. Sadly.

There is also the culture of omerta and mutual support they have: In Piers Morgan's diaries, for instance, he describes how, after he left the NotW for the Mirror, a long succession of Murdochs and their lackeys phoned him saying things along the lines of "how can you do this after Rupert took a chance on younote " and "we'll get you for this". He later remarks on how tight the whole clique was. Now, admittedly, The Insider is the definition of an unreliable source, but given that Piers Morgan has never been given another job by a Murdoch institution, he might be onto something.

James Murdoch; now, he might be a different matter given how much money was paid to Graham Taylor to keep him quiet after his phone was hacked and how much Mulcaire was paid to spy on him by his company: the only explanations, as Private Eye pointed out, for his not knowing are either A: he is lying, or B: he is unbelievably incompetent.

Some brave people could bring a civil prosecution against the Murdochs, but that would hit many of the same problems and likely be ruinously expensive.

[down] Precisely! [awesome]

edited 1st Nov '13 4:04:15 AM by Achaemenid

Schild und Schwert der Partei
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#675: Nov 1st 2013 at 3:56:45 AM

Rupert Murdoch probably maintained enough distance that pinning anything on him would be almost impossible. All he had to do is not talk about what exactly he wants done, just in general terms: If he said: "Do some digging" that can mean anything he says it does: BLAM! Reasonable doubt. It's the same problem the police have pinning anything on big crime bosses. Or the same reason we've never found a written order from Hitler for the Holocaust; all you need to do is make what you want done in a general way clear and let the subordinates interpret it in the way you want.

"Working Towards the Führer", as the historian Ian Kershaw put it. "Working towards Murdoch" may be more appropriate in this case.

Keep Rolling On

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