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A thread to talk about news and politics affecting Europe as a whole, rather than just politics within specific European countries.

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    Original first post 
Spinned off from the British Politics Thread. Basically a thread where we talk about news and politics that affect Europe as a whole rather than certain countries in it.

Anyway BBC News section for Europe Based news.

Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:24:05 PM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#1926: Sep 1st 2015 at 8:41:12 AM

[up] Yeah, the Af D really dug its own grave when they courted the Pegida crowd - and overthrowing Lucke in favour of a national conservative pro-Pegida head will be the last nail in the coffin for them. The non-nutters left the party in droves, shifting it even more to the right. But that's typical for German right-wing parties: They always are their own worst enemy. A shame Adolf von Thadden isn't alive anymore - he was responsible for the collapse of most right-wing parties post-WW 2, including the decline of the NPD because of his massive ego.

Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1927: Sep 4th 2015 at 8:35:37 AM

In Greece: Ahead of Greek election, Syriza's 'lost generation' deserts Tsipras

So divided has Syriza's youth wing become over the direction of Greece's leftist party, that when its council planned to convene at the end of August, the meeting was abandoned. Too many of its 71 members were on the point of quitting.

The incident showed the disillusionment Syriza's twenty-somethings feel with leader Alexis Tsipras, the former Communist student activist they once celebrated as one of their own. In just seven months as premier, Tsipras, under pressure from Greece's creditors, has backtracked on his pre-election promises to end austerity.

"Syriza's youth is almost over, very few people are staying behind," said one of those who walked out.

Tsipras has called an election on Sept. 20 in an effort to win a fresh mandate to push through the economic reforms that are a condition of Greece's latest 86 billion euro bailout. But Syriza's lead over its rivals has crumbled, with one poll this week showing the conservative New Democracy party in front.

Support from those aged 18-44 - once the backbone of Syriza's support according to pollsters - has plummeted. The most popular party for 18-24-year-olds now is the far right Golden Dawn, while Syriza languishes in fourth place, data by the pollster Alco show.

A fractured election result could spell more turmoil for a country battered by recession and high unemployment, and risks derailing the implementation of the bailout program that is up for review by the creditors in October.

"These elections started as something 'easy' for Tsipras and have evolved into something extremely complicated," said Thomas Gerakis, the head of pollster Marc. "The key issue in this race is what the former Syriza voters will do. Will Syriza manage to rally its former voters?"

Having failed to muster the numbers for a formal meeting, the majority of Syriza's central youth council confined itself to issuing a statement on Tuesday, denouncing the party's "bankruptcy" and withdrawing its support for the election. The council was left with just 27 members at the last count.

It is a remarkable turnaround for a party that stormed to power in January promising voters more jobs and an end to years of wage and pension cuts.

During that election, Syriza's young supporters played an outsize role on the frontline of the campaign, be it handing out leaflets, holding rallies or organizing festivals.

At forty years of age, Tsipras became the country's youngest ever prime minister, and to many seemed a breath of fresh air compared to the dynasties that have dominated Greek politics for years. His government's former spokesman is 35 years old.

But after months of bad-tempered negotiations with the country's lenders, and with banks shut and the economy on the brink of collapse, Tsipras capitulated to the creditors' demands to raise taxes and slash spending to tackle Greece's debt.

Even though the standoff with the creditors worsened the country's economic pain, opinion polls initially suggested that Tsipras remained Greece's most popular leader, because he had at least put up a decent fight. His decision to call a referendum on the bailout incensed the creditors but played well at home.

But now many are furious and may switch their allegiance to smaller parties or boycott the vote. Young Greeks have been hit especially hard by the debt crisis, with more than half of those aged 15-24 out of work, the highest proportion in Europe. Many live at home, supported by their parents and grandparents, or emigrate.

"He didn't try hard enough," said Yannis Aggelidis, a 22-year-old university student who voted for Tsipras in January but may abstain or vote for a small anti-capitalist party next time. "He had a chance and he lost it. If he had fulfilled only part of what Syriza had promised he would have stayed in power for a very long time."

Divisions in Syriza's youth wing began to emerge after Greek voters delivered a resounding 'no' to the bailout terms in July, then saw their government capitulate to Greece's creditors on point after point in the weeks that followed.

For many of Syriza's youth council members, the final straw was an interview Tsipras gave in August to Alpha TV, in which he wrote off the prospects of today's young people but hoped his own younger children could prosper.

"Sadly, we lost this generation due to the bailouts. The generation of people in their twenties today, young people, young scientists go abroad, unfortunately," Tsipras said.

To be sure, there is still time for Syriza to claw back support. Pollsters say that about half of the undecided voters, especially women, are former Syriza backers.

"The people who were Syriza's core voters are scattered, and are deeply concerned," Dimitris Mavros from pollster MRB said.

But rival parties, including New Democracy and PASOK, which was in power in the early years of the crisis, are stepping up their efforts to win young voters. For example, PASOK has appointed 33-year-old Pavlos Christidis as its new spokesman.

For undecided voters like Nefeli Tsikrika, a 24-year-old law student and former Syriza supporter, it's hard to know which party to turn to.

"We are disappointed. It's not what we expected," she said. "I was a supporter, but I'm not proud of it."

"Then again you reach a deadlock, you don't know what to vote for. Is any government in Greece actually free to govern or is it bound to the demands of foreign powers?"

I suspect the answer to that final question is No. No Government is free to govern without being bound to the demands of foreign powers.

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#1928: Sep 4th 2015 at 9:33:03 AM

Yeah, hell the only way for one to be relatively free would be for it to be willing to leave the Euro, like Greece should have the moment we realised the books had been cooked.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1929: Sep 4th 2015 at 10:21:49 AM

[up] Wouldn't that have been before Greece even changed over to the Euro? surprised

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#1930: Sep 4th 2015 at 10:25:02 AM

Wait we found out the books were cooked that early? I thought it didn't come out until after the crash of 2008.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1931: Sep 4th 2015 at 10:37:40 AM

Well, personally I don't know but I wouldn't be surprised if that was indeed the case.

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Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1932: Sep 4th 2015 at 11:35:08 AM

[up][up]Well, let's just say that we the public only found out in 2008 or a bit earlier. Behind the scenes, however...

Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1933: Oct 12th 2015 at 8:56:18 AM

Time to necro this thread a bit.

After the most recent discussion in the Ongoing European Debt Crisis thread, things in Portugal seem to be changing in the political arena (warning: after a few articles, you get a paywall):

Things are gonna get really interesting...

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1934: Oct 12th 2015 at 9:05:23 AM

[up]

Communists and greens. It's the nightmare of the average Finnish voter.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
JonnasN from Porto, Portugal Since: Jul, 2012
#1935: Oct 13th 2015 at 6:53:02 AM

[up][up]The impression I'm getting from this potential coalition is that PS would get power In Name Only (because they seem to be lacking in concrete objectives right now) while BE gets to pursue/spearhead some of its goals.

I'm not entirely sure if I like the idea, but who knows, it could be a step in the right direction.

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#1936: Oct 15th 2015 at 6:24:41 AM

[up][up]Most of the policies promoted by the Left (including basic income, free education and healthcare, more progressive taxation, stopping tax evasion by the wealthy and big corporations, preserving public transport and other services in less populated areas, gay rights, good social support for the elderly, etc) are actually very popular among the majority of Finns. Sure, most of the Left - myself included - dislikes Communists, but you know.

The Greens, of course, are mostly very similar to the Left Alliance (which is the party I support) in matters of economics and social policy - they just have a more environmental focus (also very popular among Finns for the most part), and they're very pragmatic (I'd say too pragmatic) about compromising to get into government coalitions where they can at least slightly tweak the policies pushed by the bigger parties.

It's kind of funny that the largest true populist party, which finally agreed to take some responsibility after two hugely successful elections, has basically broken just about every promise they made during the election, yet their actual, stated reason for these compromises is that they don't want to allow the Left and Green parties to get into government. So basically their only actual policy that they're willing to fight for is keeping us and the Greens out.

Now that the people (who, after all, are supposedly represented by this populist party that claims to have the support of the "silent majority") have actually seen how hollow the party's conviction and principles are, they're polling below the Greens.

I'm not going to dispute the idea that most Finns hate the Communists - I think that's even true among the Left - but if you meant to imply that most Finns dislike Leftist parties in general I think you haven't looked at any polls about any policies proposed by the Left recently, other than immigration.

As for the Greens, they and their politics are more popular now than the party that calls itself "The Finns". The Finns and their leaders have basically exposed themselves for what they are - essentially the Donald Trump of Finnish politics, without the massive funding. All talk and no action, no principle, no positive policies - only opposition to whatever the Greens and the Left are talking about on a given day. Some of them are even calling themselves "Republicans".

I think you'll find most Finnish voters have more nightmares about the Finns and the National Coalition party than any other group with seats in Parliament.

edited 15th Oct '15 6:25:02 AM by BestOf

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1937: Oct 15th 2015 at 6:31:29 AM

[up]

My only concern is defence policy these days and even that's shit now. But I do security studies anyway, so I'm heavily biased. Bring back the Home Guard already!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1938: Oct 15th 2015 at 6:46:59 AM

[up][up][up]True. It would be nice for BE to win some government experience.


Meanwhile, the government coalition's proposal was rejected by PS, due to certain 'gaps and misses' in their written document. The meetings were also reported to be fairly tense and inconclusive.

PS will be meeting on Friday with BE and the PCP (Communists) to discuss and approve the next State Budget.


@Best Of and Terminus: well, yeah, you guys had a fairly difficult relation with the Soviet Union, so I can partly see where the distaste for the Communists partly comes from. Here, its level of popularity (which diminished since the 70's) was due to their struggle and fighting against the dictatorship and their defense of the rights of factory and fishing workers (decent pensions, decent wages, against privatizations which caused part of the current level of unemployment amongst said groups, and so forth).

edited 15th Oct '15 6:48:03 AM by Quag15

BestOf FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC! from Finland Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: Falling within your bell curve
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
#1939: Oct 15th 2015 at 7:21:46 AM

There are two Communist parties in Finland (that I can think of at the moment) and neither have had a seat in our 200-seat Parliament for ages. The Left is very popular, though. Mostly it's in the SDP (one of the traditional big three in Finnish politics) and the Left Alliance (which tends to hover at around 10% or so), but recently when people have left either party for any reason they've tended to end up at The Finns.

The Finns also like to refer to themselves as a workers' party and borrow election themes wholesale from the Left (often including typos), but obviously they're losing all that by carrying this government coalition that is all about money transfers from the poor to the wealthy, while also aiding big corporations and millionaires in tax evasion.

There's also a fairly strong Left-leaning contingent in the Centre party, which currently has the top spot and, consequently, the Prime Minister's position. The PM, though, is far-right in his current approach to social and economic policy, so the majority of the party is actually in strong disagreement with him but can't really do anything except change parties at the moment.

As for security, the current government has massively increased military spending. Whether this comes from the Finns or the Centre, I don't know. The Centre party did quite recently hold the seat of Minister of Defense, who advocated for more military spending. It could come from that, but I know the Finns have also had increased military spending as one of their minor targets.

This, incidentally, is something they don't share with the Greens and the Left - our lot would rather cut from the military if cuts are necessary anywhere. Then again we don't really believe that there's a genuine need for such cuts at this time, and would prefer to see military spending as another form of government subsidy for the economy to carry us through the recession - assuming, of course, that this money isn't mainly spent on purchases from other countries.

The Swedish People's Party has also recently had the Ministry of Defense in their hands, and it seems everyone who gets that position will want to increase spending. They've got experience so if I was a complete single-issue voter about defense I think the Swedes or the Centre would be my first choices, as they want to increase spending there and have recent experience.

Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1940: Oct 15th 2015 at 8:21:22 AM

[up]

The military spending part is a bit more complicated. The FDF already has to shrink its operating costs even more between 2016-17 since the reorganisation.

The fighter jet and other purchases were decided a few years back and are not connected to the actual budget of the military. The modernisation of the equipment is still a big issue in certain circles, however.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1942: Oct 15th 2015 at 9:59:30 PM

[up] And the US.

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Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
#1943: Oct 18th 2015 at 11:36:07 AM

So, Switzerland held its vote for the parliament. And the right wing Swiss People's Party and the also rather right wing FDP gained more seats at the expense of mainly the Greens and Green Liberals: [1].

SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1944: Oct 18th 2015 at 11:49:32 AM

On the upside, in Zurich the Socialist candidate won enough votes to seize one of the two Council of Estates seats on the first round - the second seat will go into a runoff.

The Liberal party and the Swiss People's Party did expand a lot in the National Council, though.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Antiteilchen In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good. Since: Sep, 2013
Quag15 Since: Mar, 2012
#1946: Oct 22nd 2015 at 12:02:21 PM

Our mummy of a president is about to announce which prime minister will be nominated. Either the coalition remains in power or there will be a political agreement or coalition of sorts by the left.

EDIT: Passos Coelho remains (and so does the government coalition). Well, here we go: 4 more years of post-austerity (unless there's some sort of make-or-break motion in the next two years).

Ok, mummy, you can shut up now, no need to justify your party and (which is part of the coalition) and the 'need for stability'.

edited 22nd Oct '15 12:16:41 PM by Quag15

Greenmantle V from Greater Wessex, Britannia Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: Hiding
V
#1947: Nov 1st 2015 at 3:35:16 AM

A full article follows.

The Economist: A task for Tusk

Poland’s former prime minister desperately seeks to ensure that Europe’s centre can hold

MOVING to Brussels, says Donald Tusk, the president of the European Council, was like reaching “paradise”. True, that had more to do with the abundance of Flemish masterpieces in local museums than the delights of coaxing compromise from the European Union’s 28 disputatious leaders. Mr Tusk has the unenviable task of managing the European response to an endless series of crises without any real power of his own. Yet almost a year into the job he has found ways to manage, and sometimes to surpass, its limitations. As he speaks in his Brussels office, you get the sense that he might even be enjoying himself.

Few Eurocrats’ eyebrows remained unraised when Mr Tusk won his appointment. Poland, the country he had run for seven years, had barely a decade’s experience of EU membership and remained outside the euro, the union’s signature project. Mr Tusk’s abrasive style, honed in the rough-and-tumble of Poland’s young democratic politics, seemed an ill fit with the consensual methods preferred in Brussels. He worked to improve his English but, some sniff, still cannot speak French.

Mr Tusk has not swayed all his critics, though their numbers are dwindling. Europe’s crisis-manager-in-chief has weightier problems on his mind. He returns repeatedly to a single theme: the need to shore up Europe’s liberal values against the threat from populism. This is hardly an original thought in a continent afflicted by Marine Le Pen and Viktor Orban, but Mr Tusk has his own take on it. The liberal centre must be “tough and determined”, he said recently in the Netherlands, “not to become more like the right-wing populists, but to protect Europe against them.”

Thus, for example, his mantra that the EU must regain control of the borders through which hundreds of thousands of refugees and other migrants have flowed this year. He has called for an end to the policy of “open doors and windows”, a remark some saw as a jab at Angela Merkel, the German chancellor. If voters cannot be assured that Europe’s frontiers are secure, fears Mr Tusk, then they will turn to nastier leaders. (He mentions Poland, where nationalists have just ejected Civic Platform, the centre-right party Mr Tusk founded and led to two election victories.) That will make it hard, if not impossible, to pursue the more liberal policies, such as sharing out asylum-seekers across Europe, that Mr Tusk says he backs. He notes the paradox: to preserve its openness, Europe must countenance a degree of closure.

Mr Tusk is no gentler when he discusses Britain’s position in the EU. In early November David Cameron, the prime minister, will send Mr Tusk a letter outlining his requests for a “renegotiation” of Britain’s membership. It will fall to Mr Tusk to seek the common ground between what Mr Cameron needs and what his 27 counterparts can accept, particularly on Britain’s demands to reduce welfare payments to EU immigrants (Mr Cameron’s foot-dragging could postpone serious talks until next spring, possibly pushing Britain’s promised in/out referendum into 2017). Mr Tusk says that his role is clear: to help Mr Cameron keep Britain in the EU. But he worries that the process could encourage other countries to demand their own opt-outs and exemptions. For Britain to be a “role model” for everyone, he warns, would mean “the end of the EU”.

Beyond the EU’s borders, the limits of his power are becoming clearer. With fighting raging in Ukraine, Mr Tusk took office vowing a tough line on Russia. His opinions have not changed, but he now accepts that the EU can do little for Crimea or the Donbas. While Germany and France have taken the political lead in talking to Russia about Ukraine, the challenge for the EU, says Mr Tusk, is internal: to defy Vladimir Putin’s attempts to foster division in Europe. So far the EU has held the line on sanctions (which require unanimous backing, and must soon be renewed). Passing this test, which Mr Tusk describes as Europe’s first big challenge since 1989, bodes well for future crises, he says.

Perhaps the new job has mellowed the president: his happiness now rests on that of the leaders whose meetings he oversees. At a euro-zone summit Mr Tusk chaired in July, for example, it took 17 hours to find a deal that kept Greece inside the currency. This is a drastic change from his time in Poland, when, he acknowledges, he had “very limited” tolerance for political wrangling. Still, unlike the many Eurocrats who seem to have spent their whole lives in the EU’s unlovely bureaucratic buildings, Mr Tusk retains a whiff of the outsider. His approach has not been to everyone’s taste: he has pricked the egos of ambassadors, for example, by declining to meet them as often as his predecessor did. But most admit that he is warming to his role.

Avoiding “no more Europe”

Mr Tusk describes himself as an “obsessive pro-European” rather than a federalist. That distinction might once have been difficult to parse. Not today: the EU’s problems, from the integrity of its single currency to the security of its borders, cut to the heart of national sovereignty—but they also lead irresistibly to the logic of co-operation, if not its practice.

The creation of Mr Tusk’s job in the prelapsarian Lisbon treaty of 2007 was for some the first step towards a “president of Europe”. That the task should now fall to one who accepts the primacy of national governments is no surprise. Mr Tusk, never having succumbed to the dream of a federal Europe, does not regret its demise. He accepts German leadership, with the caveat that “not everything that is good for Germany is good for Europe.” Instead, he has set himself a humbler task: to ensure that Europe’s stream of crises does not entirely wash away the old order.

Unlike the sermonisers of yore, who preached More Europe and predicted the end times for nation-states, Mr Tusk is more like a life coach, gently urging Europe’s anxious leaders to find the courage to face up to hard but unavoidable challenges. Others may build Europe; he will try to keep it from falling apart.

So, it appears Tusk's job is to ensure the continued survival of the EU itself, not anything more.

edited 1st Nov '15 3:35:37 AM by Greenmantle

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TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
JackOLantern1337 Shameful Display from The Most Miserable Province in the Russian Empir Since: Aug, 2014 Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Shameful Display
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#1950: Nov 4th 2015 at 6:40:00 AM

[up]

It grew up already, but now it's old and cranky, and thinks the Thirty Years War was a better state of affairs. At least you could honestly hate other people!

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele

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