Maoyuu Maou Yuusha

Just finished watching the first episode. I will admit that when the first inklings of the previews came out that I was disappointed that they went for closer to the style of Asami You than they did for Ishida Akira, but I have to admit that it looks good animated either way.

I see that they amped up the fanservice, not by a huge amount or anything, but it's certainly a lot more ... noticeable now than it was in the manga.

From the OP, it looks like they're going to go at least as far as the current official manga serialization has gone (the official of the five that is, the one that's being drawn by the aforementioned Ishida Akira), so it should be good as long as they stay close enough to the material. Quite an enjoyable first episode overall, even if they didn't make it as complex as the manga in terms of the rhetoric that Maou gives Yuusha. I look forward to seeing more.

How far can they really get in 13 episodes?

It's certainly well done in terms of VA-casting and animation (in the latter they seem to do a lot with little, good facial expressions, etc.)

One of those "builds upon the source material" type of episodes huh? No wonder its so good! Having various characters appear giving viewpoints to the overall story is a nice touch; it presents them and their ambitions fro the get-go. That said the Opening is ridiculously spoilerific, anime first watchers coming back to rewatch this will probably notice how much was being spoiled.

There's a lot of Fan Dumb all over the internet though, going on an uproar over the supposed "Fanservice" of the show. Pretty stupid if you're coming from the inside, but what annoys me is how much they believe is going to happen based on one episode. Reminds me of Symphogear all over again, (despite the episode being fantastic!) simply because it did not fit to their assumptions.

Suggestion: When the time to update the character page comes, I think the character pics should have one of every adaptation. That might sound a bit much, but if its a single picture divided into five vertical pieces I think that it would look stylish. Shame about tvtropes' image width limit. I understand the necessity, but I just wish they could let us post pics side-by-side, that way we have economic conservation of space (they'd be placed above their descriptions on a horizontal line).

Agreed on the first two paragraphs... not too sure on the last. That said, I think all of the names on the page need to be changed to be in line with Crunchyroll's translation due to the officialness.

But fitting all 7 versions (5 manga, the novels and the anime) of every character would be too much.

edited 5th Jan '13 11:32:10 AM by burnpsy

Now I've read at least the 21-chapter manga, so long post ahead. It's one of those that when you start, it's easy to keep going. So I did.

Does anyone in the series have a proper name? Though I do find it amusing that everyone is described with the most generic title they can think of. Well, a few of them have a monikers they use, at least.

My general impression is that it's a series about breaking Medieval Stasis, and winning battles (war, economics, political) with technology and knowledge from "the future". Generally speaking, humans are depicted a curious, but here, it's Miss Demon King's forte.

I don't think the anime OP was that spoilerific. There were some things, naturally, but mainly there are things you just won't think of or understand how they are spoilers before actually knowing what they're about. Most notably the bloody maid. Otherwise it was generally just about the setting, which doesn't really spoiler the plot as such. If you have to rewatch the OP to see how much you were spoiled after the event, you weren't spoiled at all. If you recall scenes from the opening and figure out the plot beforehand, then you're spoiled.

People will always complain about fanservice, which is a pet peeve of mine. Always. It's apparently impossible to have both fanservice and a good show rolled into one. In the episode it felt less like fanservice and more a strong indicator that the hero was perhaps a little bit distracted by the bouncy. Personally I get more mood whiplashed by the images between manga chapters. The difference between the manga and anime is more like the difference between commersial breaks and Product Placement than anything about amount.

I think having lots of images on the character page is way too much. If there's official art from the original I prefer that, but otherwise a good manga image or anime screenshot would be fine.

I don't think the hero is a prejudiced moron who deserves to die because he didn't kill a person. Sure, he was surprised by her gender, but if she acted like he expected and challenge him to a fight to the death or some such, I'm fairly certain he'd be quick to take her up on it. It's a bit harder to kill someone who's genuinely friendly than a raging monster. Unless you are a monster too.

Now, reading back in the thread, economically speaking, yes, war is bad overall for the economy. However, the main problem seems to be that the southern kingdoms are just too populated to sustain themselves, and keep growing despite the war. They would go into chaos if the war stopped. The central, on the other hand, must have enough food to pretty much supply the entire human realm, which is why food shortages for them seem odd to me. They can already pretty much sustain themselves and a war, unless they're pretty much looking down the abyss and are just waiting to drop.

Yes, the countries were at civil war before, which is just as bad, but would everything just revert back to that state if the war ended? Would all technology just magically disappear? They're living in comfortable peace away from the war front, so wanting to go to war where they live isn't high on their priority list. It might happen if tension is bursting and just barely held in check by the war, but I just don't get the feeling the end of the war would be as apocalyptic as presented. What I can buy is Miss Demon King exaggerating to convince the hero her path is the right one, though she's rather honest.

Overall, there are problems on both sides of the argument. Are there problems with how realistic the situation is? Yes. Is it fundamentally broken with no connection at all to how real life politics and economics work? No.

edited 5th Jan '13 11:56:55 AM by AnotherDuck

I thought the problem with ending the war was obvious. The Southern countries have thousands of professional soldiers who've known nothing but war their entire lives (it's been 15 years, so the younger soldiers have no pre-war memories) and suddenly they have no food. What do you think they're going to do? The civil war wouldn't be started by the Central countries, they'd be started by the South. Which is why so much focus has been made on making them self-sustaining. Although there's some irony in the fact that doing so and therefore making them independent has started its own civil war.

Regarding food shortages, there's enough food right now, but that's taking into account all the lives being lost to the war. The starvation is only a problem once people stop dying from other things.

edited 5th Jan '13 1:24:02 PM by Clarste

In short: it's not a matter of yes/no. It's a matter of degree. Longer:

I suppose I formulated it badly, but I think the southern countries would pretty much just go under if they were cut off from the supply from the central countries. It depends on how much stock they have, and how far they'd be able to advance and take over before running out. They'd lose a sustained war badly.

It also depends on who wins the war. If the demons win, well, then the humans lose anyway (which may or may not create a second front beteen the southern and central kingdoms). If the humans win, the southern countries would probably more likely raid the demon lands for resources, and after that just about anything could happen, depending on the success of that.

I'm not sure what they said about how many people die in the war as is, but most prolonged wars are really stalemates most of the time, with few if any skirmishes. I'm not sure what numbers they're going by here, but they did mention 60% from hunger and diseases. So anything between 0% and 40%, which really tells us nothing. In most wars people died mainly from non-battle causes, though I believe that number is a lot smaller for fixed-front wars, as compared to moving campaigns and conquests, since communication in a certain area generally improves with time.

However, I don't think the argument is that it would be bad if the war ended (that is indeed obvious), or that Miss Demon King's solution is a bad one considering the other options, just that a situation of a sustained war isn't good either, which it's presented as. It really depends on how much the war itself costs. Most of the war funds probably go to maintenance that would be needed anyway just to live. It also doesn't matter if people die from famine or battle, since they die anyway. With that in mind, the lives lost to the war may add up to nothing. That to me is far more sustainable than a non-war situation without the improvements Miss Demon King is planning.

edited 5th Jan '13 1:04:17 PM by AnotherDuck

The Central countries have no standing army. While it's true that "wars on fought their stomachs", having a long-term food advantage doesn't help much when you don't have any soldiers. Not to mention it probably wouldn't even be anything so "graceful" as a war, just large-scale banditry. It's not like all the people of the country starve at equal rates: when food becomes scarce the more ruthless folks start raiding their neighbors, etc. Soldiers becoming bandits in times of peace is a problem that comes up a lot, especially in Japanese history (and obviously the writer is Japanese).

In terms of "this is not a realistic ending to the war since in that case one side would have conquered the other", it's not supposed to be. It's just the "what if" scenario of if the war suddenly magically ended (perhaps the connection between the worlds is cut off?) that serves as the justification for why both sides choose to keep fighting it.

Finally, no one said that sustaining the war was good. Heck, her entire motivation is to end the war, to see "what's beyond the hill". She just wants to end it right. Ending it wrong would solve nothing, and the economic and political reasons that caused it in the first place would still be there, quickly triggering another war. Ending the war wouldn't be apocalyptic per se, but it wouldn't help anyone either. Nor would such a peace be lasting.

Ah Clarste, the irony part in your post... if it is what I think it is, then isn't that a spoiler for those watching only the anime?

Aside from that, I agree with you. The Southern Countries full of soldiers would definitely attack and raid the Central Countries instead of just starving to death. And do remember that the Central Countries enjoy the prosperity due to the protection of the Southern ones... which means that I imagine the reason that their production base is able to feed all that people is because they don't have to worry about anyone coming to destroy their fields. Much harder to reliably produce enough food to feed anyone when your fields are getting attacked, destroyed or wrestled away from you by aggressors from the South and infighting from the Center.

Also, I read the first chapter of the manga, the Ishida Akira one, and while I like how the anime expanded on things, letting us see more of the world than merely the conversation between the hero and the demon lord... that's the only part I liked more in the anime. I find the designs of the characters in the anime to look very generic and while they are more charming seeing them in motion, I still would have preferred something more in line with Akira's designs. I also liked more the personalities of the hero and the demon lord in the manga.

Lots of people in the series say the war is good; that's what I was referring to, and I read a few arguments on other sites where people are prone to take anything anyone in a series say as the absolute truth. Objectively, I don't think anyone says so. Anyway, I basically agree with you.

I liked the anime design more, actually. The manga was a little too rough around the edges for my tastes. And overall, the anime felt more living.

edited 5th Jan '13 1:31:37 PM by AnotherDuck

Personaly like manga better. It's somehow simplier (in both story telling and Character design), cause that it has edge on right places (again in both). To put it simply it's more fun and character centered.

I'm honestly conflicted about the whole idea of anything in this series being "character centered". I mean, the basic premise screams satire, not to mention the fact that none of the characters have real names and half of them seem to represent demographics moreso than individuals. But the other half don't. I find this slightly confusing.

As for the character designs, I currently find it hard to imagine anime-Maou becoming the same person as manga-Maou, but I'll let myself be pleasantly surprised. The others seem fine.

I can take comparisons with a grain of salt. The anime is currently my best bet in enjoying the premise. The anime may have explained the problem with human world differently but the premise and plot remain 98% the same.

The war between humans and demons isn't a centuries old grudge, which means Queenie's solutions will hold water.

The demons and humans have their own prejudices against another prior to the war. Implicitly.

Southern nations cannot possibly sustain themselves, because no education, having only warriors, agriculturally deprived soil (from repeated wheat farming) and long winters.

If the war ends, it's humans vs humans (massive casualties) PLUS starvation PLUS no increase in food production. Demons will screw with each other as well, and the title of Demon King won't matter shit.

What do you mean becoming that kind of person?

But otherwise, yeah, several of them aren't characters. Especially the three stooges. They represent their social classes, and later ideas of the Crimson Scholar, and her way of thinking. The antagonists are equally caricaturised. Most of them are half-way characters, including the main characters. Sure, they're individuals in their own right, but they also simply represent the ideas they have.

Miss Demon King represents scientifical advances, and improving life through knowledge and cooperation. The hero is the warriors after the war, who has to figure out where they belong outside the battlefield. The prince is the young generation who wants to see more than the war they grew up with, and are ready to accept new ideas to make it happen. The young merchant is capitalism, a powerful force, neither good nor evil, but also looking for creative solutions past boundaries (which is shared with the two main characters). Actually, cooperation across borders is more of a general theme for the series, and also personified by the dragon clan, who balances it with honour, as well as the entire aptly named Gateway City.

edited 5th Jan '13 4:10:12 PM by AnotherDuck

As a manga reader, have to say, holy Spoiler Opening, Haruhi. The OP pretty much laid out several important plot points that might not mean anything for an anime-only watcher, but mean a LOT for folk like me.

I wonder if I should watch this.

Hey, Ultimately Subjective, if you are watching this, give me a heads-up. Thanks in advance.

It looks okay so far.

Comparable to Spice And Wolf as many people will tell you. Do you want to see a hero try to end a war with an understanding of economics and politics?

The intent of this story is good enough. It started with a question about the consequences of a cliché and grew from there.

However, the Hero and the Demon queen don't seem set up as unique leads (like the fact that they are unnamed) which suggests to me that characterisation will take a backseat to the story of the war and explanations of the politics of the situation. And I haven't really seen how that's handled yet, but I did have some issues with the directing in the first episode.

It may be too early to call, but I think it's only going to be an average anime. Not as good as Spice And Wolf, unless you prefer the premise.

There isn't a great deal to hate here (so far), but you may be ambivalent about it like me.

Tldr; Watch it if you like the premise (The page has details), or if you haven't much else to watch at the moment.

It does not come highly recommended from me, but that said there's only been one episode and I will be watching at least one more.

edited 6th Jan '13 3:43:44 AM by UltimatelySubjective

Anyone new to the material and interested in the concept really should read the Comp Ace adaptation instead. The first episode drops a lot of the actual substance that builds her arguments and substantially changes the characterization of the female lead. She does roughly the same things, but she's lacking a lot of the blunt business-like air she keeps for most of their first conversation. They emphasize the idealism and deemphasize the harsh pragmatism backing it up. As a result of these changes, the episode lacks a lot of what's really fundamental to the series. I'm not sure that's going to change.

I'm going to keep watching, but I think this is a show that's only really going to work if you already know the original material — that is, a "visualization" more than a proper "adaptation."

Then again, how else would you cram those stuff into a 20+ minutes first episode? Being captivating as a 'first impression' was a valid goal, and to me, I think it pulled off.

What? Don't tell me you don't miss the Powerpoint presentations the Demon Lord used to hammer her points home in the manga? :P

Otherwise it was a good start to the show, though it might lack impact for those who were spoiled by the manga.

To me, it wasn't really missed, per se. Notice that how each interrupting view of other characters and their dialogues, it acts as if the Hero had heard Queenie's explanation and picked up.

In other words, the animation staff was taking the approach of using other characters to narrate the story more, instead of applying too much screen time to the titular characters.

I didn't get that Offscreen Inertia perception of it. There's no real indication of time passing for most of those cutaways, and if we had that, it would have worked — for example, if one of those scenes returned with her having a chart out and visibly finishing a lecture on the subject. We didn't really get that.

And even if it keeps the story moving, that movement comes at the expense of not properly building her credibility as intelligent and informed. She doesn't just need to convince him, she needs to convince us, because that gives the viewer the necessary investment in the story. Before the hero is sent off to save the world, he needs to be shown a reason why the world needs saving — and when you show that to the viewer, you give them a reason to care about what's happening. And when we're shown what needs to be done, the actions taken to those ends are given their proper context.

It's the foundation of the story, and they didn't spend enough time building it up. And I know enough architecture to be a little worried about a creaky foundation.

I agree that the first episode went by a little fast. At the moment I still prefer the manga. But there's still many more episodes to go.

Episode 1: Great. Not exactly what I was expecting (I was expecting something more in line with the manga— I was waiting for the Powerpoint presentations) but the show's got the gist. I prefer the manga too at the moment, but I am definitely going to keep watching the anime.

EDIT: The background art is eye candy.

EDIT AGAIN: Reread chapter 1 (I'm now planning to reread the chapter/s that the latest episode covers) and I definitely prefer it. More economics stuff, less fanservice, and I prefer its portrayal of the characters. The anime does get bonus points for the art (which I actually find to be good even if the manga's edges it out a bit) and showing other characters.

edited 6th Jan '13 6:39:28 AM by fillerdude