The Pledge of Allegiance

This country does a lot for its people. I don't think having to say the pledge of allegiance is all that demanding.

Granted, the whole 'under God' bit I could do without, but lol 50's and people under the impression America is a theocracy. Still, I support the overall idea.

While I don't think that we should ban it outright, I think that it's ridiculous to coerce students into saying it. Bullying someone into it goes against the whole "liberty and justice for all" bit.

They forced us to do it in my school, but I don't think anyone's gotten in trouble for not saying it. My sixth grade teacher even forgot to have us say it at least once a week!

I just realized something. Doesn't this violate freedom of religion? I know Jehovah's Wtinesses have a specific retriction against pledging oneself to any nation.

Hence why it's optional, and has no legal import.

See West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette which corrected their mistake the first time.

edited 15th Jun '11 12:51:50 AM by blueharp

"Under God" was added during the Mc-Carthy Witch Hunt as a Take That! to the Constitution and must be dropped.

I am a Brit, a Communist, an Atheist, an Anarchist and I adore the Pledge. Liberty and Justice for all is the doctrine of Anarchism, Atheism and Communism.

I weep buckets at the finale of Five Alive 2, when Jonny and Odo and the new Citizens are sworn in.

But EVERY freaking day? WTF? Those stirring and glorious words turn into mush in our souls. You should do the Pledge on Independence Day.

It's like Christmas, spending one day per year focusing on Peace and Love and Hippy stuff gives you strength to cope with Lacrima Mundi for the rest of the year, but if you go around being a Hippy on weekdays ... Likewise, focusing and believing in the Patriotic virtues is a good thing, but Aristotle proved that TOO much of anything is a bad thing.

edited 15th Jun '11 12:58:04 AM by Trotzky

How is it the doctrine of atheism and anarchy?

Everytime I hear about the ""I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America" part I get a mental image of the Stars and Stripes ordering people around.

(I'm not American, I've never pledged my allegience to anyone or anything).

edited 15th Jun '11 2:07:08 AM by TrapperZoid

The trouble with the pledge is we're just taught to parrot it, we aren't taught why we parrot it.

Oh god, I have been punished for not saying the pledge. At least, when I lived in the States. Then again, I lived in Georgia, in the Bible Belt. Eventually, I just made a habit of fucking up the pledge. It was around fifth grade that I realized what the pledge of allegiance was saying, and I was a big anti-America kid then, so I'd often cause trouble about it. I've grown up since then.

By high school, I was just switching up words so nobody'd notice I'm not really pledging allegiance. At the very least, I'd just say "Under science." I may be an American Brit, but I'm not pledging allegiance to anyone but the mistresses under whom I serve.

Point is, they do force you to say the pledge in certain schools, and there are punishments for not. I'm fine with the pledge as just something to get kids ready for the wonders of forced patriotism, but at the same time, I hated having to say it every morning. If America wants people to stop criticizing it so much, it shouldn't force more patriotism; it should take a nice piece of humble pie and fix the problems. At the very least, make the pledge optional everywhere. That would save lives.

Anarchism asserts that injustice and tyranny are caused by the State and the way to achieve Liberty and Justice is to destroy the State.

Likewise, Atheism asserts that injustice and tyranny are caused by the Religion and the way to achieve Liberty and Justice is to destroy Religion.

Communism asserts that injustice and tyranny are caused by the Bourgeoisie and the way to achieve Liberty and Justice is to destroy the Borgeoisie.

I reckon it's best to destroy ALL forms of oppression just to be sure.

"Liberty and Justice for all" is a glorious virtue. Those -isms are methods to attain those virtues and to trample "Human Nature" and "Family Values" into the dung-pile of History.

From the anecdotes, saying the pledge everyday rarely inspires people to virtue.

edited 15th Jun '11 2:29:13 AM by Trotzky

I thought atheists don't like god, communists don't like big business, and anarchists like The Sex Pistols and hate the government.

To me, the Pledge is a sign the States only pretend to be a secular country.

I've suggested to Americans saying "out of many" in the place of "under God", both as a throwback to our motto "E Pluribus Unum" and to piss off the fundies.

Atheism asserts that there are no deities of any kind. One can be atheist without thinking religion is oppressive and should be destroyed.

The position you describe is "antireligion".

Actually, antitheism is the term you're thinking of.

Anyway, me being an honor based individual, would stand up for any country's national anthem if I was in that country if only for the fact that I'm recognizing that they haven't thrown me in jail yet and strip me of all human rights. Being rebellious is cool and all, but I'll recognize the difference of trying to cause problems for the sake of having problems and actually having a problem in the first place. In pledging allegiance to any flag, you're paying respect to that country for letting you be there and be one of its citizens or a guest with all the same rights as all of the other citizens.

To me, it seems pretty bemusing that some people have to stand up and say the pledge, or get punished, others mess up the words, others just don't do it. Do the people in Washington actually do anything that concerns anything? Because here, London literally controls the entire country, except for matters of the devolved Parliaments of Scotland, Wales and Ulster (N. Ireland).

I think it'd be like singing 'God Save the Queen' every morning. Imagining that is slightly humourous, although I do get why you might do it. It probably provides a sense of unity, you know, that 'you're all Americans, and this is America and we won't let you forget it'.

Oh God Save the Queen... Well actually, more like God/Allah/etc. Save the Queen. We have multiculturalism here.

"God save the queen" is kind of the WORST possible national anthem to do anything to. Its the most boring, dirgey national song I have ever had to suffer through

Therefore we should judge the quality of all anthems by the quality of the music. This should be the new United States anthem:

Well we don't have to sing it. I've never actually heard it other than being cut off by the bad guy shooting people in films.

As far as I'm aware, schools don't actually have official policies regarding the pledge of allegiance; it's just something faculties or individual teachers decide under their own discretion, like whether to allow hats in classrooms or when to have pajama day.

Huh... so autarky all around or something then?

There has been talk among the French government about mandating singing our national anthem*

edited 15th Jun '11 7:47:55 AM by Medinoc

Well you know to me, mentioning God, is more out of tradition than actually being religious in any way. I just think it's a part of history rather than especially important. That's just my opinion but for some people it's too much just to say it, so whatever.

I'd accept just mentioning God like I say "amen" at church weddings, but saying that He has authority over me,you and the whole State (what "under" means) crosses a line.

A line that's quite important in a State that's supposed to be secular.

edited 15th Jun '11 8:41:07 AM by Medinoc