This should probably be merged with Made Of Magic: Pure Magic Being

But I would like consensus on merging with Made of Magic first.

edited 27th May '11 2:25:52 PM by Ekuran

Made of Magic seems to be anything Made of Magic towns, worlds ect while Pure Magic Being is a person. Seems quite different.

However both don't reference each other at all but reference Energy Being.

edited 27th May '11 2:28:33 PM by Raso

Pure Magic Being seem a little too close to Energy Being. If anything we should merge those two.

Except, as mentioned in the description and examples, a Pure Magic Being is rarely an Energy Being. Several of them have a physical form as default that are simply made out of pure magic.

edited 27th May '11 6:02:43 PM by Servbot

Sorry, I misread the tropes.

I'm confused by this trope. I thought instantly of Planeswalkers pre-mending in Magic The Gathering, but they aren't listed under Made of Magic, Pure Magic Being, or Energy Being.

If you don't know what I'm talking about...

• Planeswalkers in Magic The Gathering originally were made of pure mana energy. Due to this, they could shapeshift and use their own bodies as fuel for spells, and they were near-immortal and invulnerable to physical harm.

My question is: Would this sort of thing go under Energy Being, Pure Magic Being / Made of Magic, or both?

edited 28th May '11 12:50:36 AM by Scardoll

I'd guess both, going off that description.

Also, Energy Beings are very frequently encountered in settings which most certainly do not have magic. Though they will frequently be seen, intentionally or otherwise, as "godlike" or "magical". Clarke's Third Law applies heavily here.

Bump. I'd say that Pure Magic Being could count as a subtrope of Made of Magic, since the latter can apply to non-sophonts and non-living entities.

^ This. That's why we have subtropes. When a specific type of a trope becomes well-enough established that it is a trope itself, you have a subtrope. In theory, all subtropes could be merged back into their supertrope.

I'm with Madrugada. One is a subtrope of the other. We have subtropes for a reason. They're a good thing.

That said, shouldn't the the trope have been named Pure Magical Being, instead of Pure Magic Being? And if the subtroping gets passed, Magical Being should be fixed from redirecting to Made of Magic.

Yes, and Yes.

So, what do we do now? Crowner?

Pure Magical Being is grammatically incorrect at least for what we want it for, so, no. It's a being made of Pure Magic. By turning it into Pure Magical Being you're grammatically shifting it so that it means a creature that is Magical and Pure rather than a being that is made of Pure Magic. It's because Pure Magic is an adjective phrase modifying Being where as if it's Pure Magical then those are both adjectives independently modifying Being as opposed to Pure modifying Magic.

/Grammar Nazi

edited 15th Jun '11 7:19:57 PM by shimaspawn

Purely Magical Being, then

That sounds good.

Magical is still the wrong word here. Something that's magical has magic, but isn't made of magic.

@shimaspawn: Good points. I never looked at it that way before.

I made a single proposition rename crowner here for Pure Magic Being now that it looks like renaming the trope is what people want to do. If people want to take a different action, I guess that a page action crowner could be swapped in instead.

Its looks like I was being dumb here, sorry.

edited 17th Jun '11 8:37:10 AM by LouieW

Uh, no, I thought it was clear that Shimaspawn had proved Pure Magic Being is the proper way to name the trope for living entities that are "purely made of magic"; the issue now is whether it's distinct enough to qualify as either a fully-separate subtrope or an Internal Subtrope of Made of Magic.

edited 17th Jun '11 4:07:30 AM by MarqFJA

Magic is generally considered a form of energy. Shimaspawn's counters only reference the fact that 'magical' does not comprised of essence make.

But if we define an object as being 'made of magic', we don't mean performing magic, we mean it's made of arcane lifestuff.

Hence, Energy Being.

A great example's on the Pure Magic page - the Elohim are made of Earthpower, which is a form of energy which empowers the earth that is given freely to those who serve it and are made from it. Anele and the Ranyhyn are also made from Earthpower, despite being physical creatures. But no one says that Earthpower is 'magic' free from energy; in fact it's described as energy numerous times throughout T Co TC...

In the Forgotten Realms, magic is described as manipulable energy.

edited 17th Jun '11 5:22:04 AM by Crimsonthorn

Magic being a form of energy is more or less just as common as Magic being either something a different from "a form of mystical energy" or much more than just "a form of energy". Also, the usual use of the term "Energy Being" has much more in common with sci-fi than with fantasy.

I.e. Pure Magic Being can overlap with Energy Being, but not always and not enough to make them one trope.

edited 17th Jun '11 5:21:26 AM by MarqFJA

I get what you're saying, but I can't think of a world where magic is something other than energy that it is not /also/ energy. Do you agree?

Pure Magic Being can't be a supertrope of Energy Being, but Energy Being certainly encompasses Pure Magic Being. What you're stating seems to be arguing categorically that magic is not a form of energy, where the definition of energy is an essence that potentially may translate into a force in reality. I am sorry, but I disagree with this - magic is certainly a force when tapped, but when latent it is a source which may be used to create forces in the world. Whether we can argue the semantics of magic being a force or not, I doubt we can argue that magic isn't magic.

edited 17th Jun '11 5:35:28 AM by Crimsonthorn

Do note that many (if not most) fantasy settings (I can only name with certainity the Nasuverse right now) have magic proper be distinct from magical energy; i.e. magic uses magical energy, but is not magical energy itself.

Also, the definition of "energy" that you're using is restricted to natural sciences, which are rooted in observations of the mundane/physical world around us; it's up to each particular setting's creator if they want to define magic such that they apply under that definition, but to my experience magic usually does not qualify under it.

edited 17th Jun '11 5:55:58 AM by MarqFJA

Also of note, while energy beings are generally glowy floating light creatures, a Pure Magic Being tends to much more solid looking. There are also a lot of genre conventions for the two that their origins make which results in them being treated very differently in media.