A single unified LGBTQ+ conversation

I'm not that into Magic but Alesha is awesome.

Ugh. Why invite those with a history of hate speech to speak at public places? It's atrocious.

(take the subtitles off, they're really, really bad)

I'm not sure how a smelly vagina is worse than a smelly penis.

edited 31st Jan '15 2:35:37 AM by TheHandle

...well, I wasn't expecting to wake up to this.

Hygiene is important, you guys.

So the gist I'm getting is "Transphobia isn't real, but transwomen aren't really women because reasons."

I don't know why, but I find this whole thing hilarious.

Wasn't there a song about that very subject?

edited 31st Jan '15 5:15:52 AM by SilentlyHonest

Transphobia is very real, no matter what others want you to believe.

Can we define 'transphobia' in precise terms?

Hostile, negative attitudes torwards trans individuals or on a more general level, those who express gender variance of any kind.

Does a negative aesthetic reaction towards a transgender person who doesn't "pass" count as transphobia?

yes, as far as i can tell

Yes, and asking a person to pass counts as transphobia if you really demand they fit the role that easily.

So by this standard, if you want to be able to pass does it count as internalized transphobia?

... No. Because there's a difference between wanting to not have your gender doubted and being able to pull off a look well, and demanding a person fit into a tight box which is imposed on by the rest of society.

Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying.

Although in my case it's a massive amount of self-loathing.

I don't feel this would be fair in all circumstances. There's a whole spectrum between "I demand that every woman look fit into the Hollywood Actress mold" and "I find that that five o'clock shadow is a bit of a turnoff, quite frankly". Or, conversely, between "I demand that every man look and dress like a Hollywood Actor" and "darling, you're cute and everything, but I'm just not comfortable dating men that are shorter than me, regardless of gender-assigned-at-birth".

I feel that this isn't so much a matter of transphobia per se, but rather one of gender expectations of varying narrowness where outliers get the short end of the stick, regardless of their gender of origin, and where transgender people just happen to be at a disadvantage.

A handle like that wouldn't help. Though I suppose that would be a topic for the anxiety thread? By the way, what's your chosen gender?

edited 31st Jan '15 12:51:33 PM by TheHandle

Those gender expectations are shitty to begin with.

How can I tell if a feeling i'm having is dysphoria or something else?

The Handle - it's quite fair in most circumstances, because 99 times out of 100 you'll find it edging more to the idea they want trans people to look like a Hollywood Actress.

It not only damages trans people, but it hurts cis people as well. I am a very tall and muscular woman, and I've had people doubt I am a woman simply because they don't think I look like one.

Such bullshit hurts everybody, but I want to destroy it simply because it hurts trans people the worst of all. I can deal with it and have done for 40 years, but don't want a trans person hurt because of what I go through.

In your case it's an obvious case of dysphoria, and there's little else it could be. What else do you think it could be?

edited 31st Jan '15 12:56:32 PM by RatherRandomRachel

I...don't know.

I've always thought i only had mild dysphoria because i didn't know exactly what dysphoria entailed....

but what i'm getting right now is a clear disconnect between body and mind that really kind of hurts. Like, when people call me by the correct pronouns, it should feel right but then i hear my voice and see my body and it's like ....wrong

edited 31st Jan '15 12:58:56 PM by ElectricNova

Which is part of it - one of the big things is a discomfort measured somehow between body and mind. It can be anywhere between "This is my body but I need to change it to suit how I see myself" up to "I hate this body so much that I want to damage it, because it's not me.".

There's a whole range of bodily discomfort which can easily be a part of it, although it doesn't need to be too extreme.

@Gender expectations: They certainly are for those that can't or won't fit them. But what are fair standards? When does it become fair to consider someone ugly and unattractive?

edited 31st Jan '15 1:01:41 PM by TheHandle

Easy, it doesn't. We need to stop holding people to such standards because it places something which just can't work for everybody.

I know that looks are a part of humanity and always will be, but we can't go around policing how people look at all.