What IS this?: Megaphone Hanging

Her example is entirely theoretical. >:

Making it obvious would cut nearly all of the examples. It doesn't -have- to be subtle but a good number of them are. I guess that just makes another vote for rename then: it's not clear.

edited 13th May '11 10:08:22 AM by savage

Just so we're clear here: This trope is summed up as follows

• Series A contains an artifact/trope/whatever that resembles one used in Series B.
  • This may or may not be obvious
• Series A makes mention of the resemblance.
  • This also may or may not be obvious.

^ Okay, I can understand that, but then we need to fix up the description. Like cutting the entire second paragraph since it's unrelated to what you posted:

Because if it's just a reference thrown into the work whether or not certain audience members will catch on, that's par for the course of a normal Shout-Out, and not hanging a lampshade on it (i.e. explicitly bringing it to attention).

edited 14th May '11 6:45:12 PM by Stratadrake

The thing is, if you're not familiar with Ichiban No Tempura, then you're not going to notice that Alice and Bob is almost exactly the same story except told as a space western rather than a Jidaigeki film. You also won't notice that the jukebox in the space-saloon is playing a disco version of the main theme from Ichiban No Tempura as a Shout-Out.

Whereas if you are familiar with Ichiban No Tempura, you may see the similarities between it and Alice And Bob and think the latter is ripping off the former. And then they get to the aforementioned Shout-Out in a space-saloon, which is not the sort of thing you'd expect from a rip-off. A sane plagiarist tries to pass off a creation as their own work and depends entirely on their audience being unaware of the original—but here, the creator is drawing your attention to the existence of the original. This convinces you that the creators of Alice And Bob are acting in good faith.

And this fits our definition of Lampshade Hanging:

The core of the trope, from what I understand, is a Lampshade Hanging in the form of a Shout-Out - signposting a general reference with a specific one.

Inspiration Nod, perhaps? I think this should definitely be a "nod" trope.

Is it even possible to have a work based on another work, without referencing it in some way?

How can we tell which parts of the similarities between e.g. Indiana Jones and Alan Quatermain are there because Indy is inspired by Alan, and which of them are there because the authors wanted to, er, megaphone-hang the inspiration?

It feels like a Shout-Out only The Same But More.

If we decide to keep this, Inspiration Nod is a good name.

No, no, no. It's the lampshade hanging of a shout-out.

edited 15th May '11 11:42:05 AM by SalFishFin

It doesn't seem to be a lampshade hanging of a shout out, but rather using a shout out to hang a lampshade on being inspired by some earlier work.

I'm still having a little trouble wrapping my brain around the definition in any way that doesn't boil down to "a More Different Shout-Out".

A Shout-Out is when an author makes a deliberate reference to another work. It may or may not be from the mouth of a character, or obvious to a given viewer; but if it's not a deliberate reference, it's just a meager coincidence.

I read it as a Shout-Out specifically to acknowledge an inspiration or predecessor to the work.

Edit: Wait, I already said that.

edited 15th May '11 6:26:28 PM by troacctid

^ Then what makes it any different from a regular Shout-Out?

A regular shoutout can be to other stuff that was not a source of inspiration.

Inspiration Nod is way, way better.

Example: In an Order Of The Stick comic, a deal with the devil is decided upon by the deal-ee having to touch a red orb to accept, or blue to reject. If he'd left it at that, it would have been a shout-out to The Matrix.

But then, the demon goes on to say that "we totally cribbed this from The Matrix." That line is what makes it Megaphone Hanging.

edited 15th May '11 10:11:26 PM by SalFishFin

I would agree with this. The current name is incomprehensible.

Sal Fish Fin => The problem with that example is that Order Of The Stick is not inspired by The Matrix - neither the comic as a whole, nor that particular scene. So that page of OOTS is a Lamp Shaded Shout-Out, but not an Inspiration Nod.

Then again, I'm not convinced either that there's an actual difference between Shout-Out and Inspiration Nod, anyway.

The difference between a Shout-Out and an Inspiration Nod is that a Shout-Out doesn't have to be to a work contributing anything to the thing that's making the Shout-Out.

To go back to the Order Of The Stick reference, it's not an Inspiration Nod - it's a Shout-Out to The Matrix which is immediately lampshaded. An Inspiration Nod is a kind of Lampshade Hanging - it's an acknowledgement that the work is derivative - but it takes the form of a Shout-Out to the work that inspired it.

But the trope applies to shout-outs as well. That's why the "Megaphone" part is in the name.

@Spark: If the definition of a Megphone Hanging is a Lampshade Hanging of a Shout-Out, then the OOTS scene is a perfect example, whereas the Star Wars Trench Run as described in the article itself is not (though it would be a fair example for Inspiration Nod).

@Sal: Which page?

edited 16th May '11 6:53:31 AM by Stratadrake

But that's not what Megaphone Hanging is. It's when an entire work is based on an older work, and also includes a more direct Shout-Out to the older work as a Lampshade Hanging of the fact. Order Of The Stick as a whole is not a parody of The Matrix, thus the scene with the demon saying "We stole this idea from The Matrix" is not a Megaphone Hanging.

I was there when they renamed it. The "Meagphone" part of the name was a direct reference to the "shout" part of "Shout-Out." See The Crowner

Page I'm talking about, but epic spoilers

Also, it turned out I reversed the colors in my head. Accept was blue, Reject was red.

edited 16th May '11 8:46:21 AM by SalFishFin

It's not a Lampshade Hanging of a Shout-Out. The description says it applies to "borrowing themes and/or situations." That's not the same as a Shout-Out. A Shout-Out is a direct reference to another work, not just using similar themes or situations. Shout-Out gets enough misuse already; let's not compound those problems by centering a whole trope around the wrong definition.

edited 16th May '11 10:27:35 AM by troacctid

The Megaphone Hanging is a Shout-Out that Hangs A Lampshade on the borrowing of some themes or plot from a previous work. I think that's a pretty straightforward line, then again I too was there when they renamed it. I came up with the name and added the parts of the write-up that we're talking about.

I'm noting that this thread has turned into "is this an example" rather than any sort of trope repair.