This thread exists to discuss British politics.
Political issues related to Northern Ireland and the Crown Dependencies (the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) are also considered on-topic here if there's no more appropriate OTC thread for them.
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As with other OTC threads, off-topic posts may be thumped or edited by the moderators.
- There is a dedicated thread to discuss LGBTQ+ rights in the United Kingdom. That doesn't mean it's always off-topic here, but unless something's directly linked to political events, that's probably a better thread for it.
- There's also a separate thread to talk about your favourite British Prime Ministers.
Recent political stuff:
- The vote to see if Britain should adopt Alternative Voting has failed.
- Lib Dems lose lots of councils and councillors, whilst Labour make the majority of the gains in England.
- The Scottish National Party do really well in the elections.
A link to the BBC politics page containing relevant information.
Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 3rd 2023 at 11:15:30 AM
V
- Labour will support pension reforms, says Rachel Reeves: Not So Different, after all...
- Water cannon is not very British, say campaigners
- UKIPWatch — Douglas Alexander: ‘UKIP poses a challenge to all parties. I take it very seriously’
- Sir Peter Tapsell: 'My biggest mistake in politics was to listen to Mrs Thatcher'note
edited 22nd Mar '14 4:40:46 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
HGW XX/7
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's why you avoid the Trots. Democratic centralism is a horrible way to run a political party. It's unworkable, and ironically by demanding unity it fosters secession since it makes it very hard for multiple viewpoints to co-exist in the same movement. It's why Trotskyite parties often end up being culty as fuck.
Pretty much this - although one should be wary of talking about "the police" like they're a homogenous bloc; the various local forces are effectively separate organizations - though, of course, there is some unity of internal culture.
@Tapsell: Everyone's mistake, one thinks.
@Water cannon: They've completely failed to demonstrate a need for such a thing.
edited 22nd Mar '14 4:43:25 AM by Achaemenid
Schild und Schwert der Partei
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Quite true - I was mostly thinking of larger organisations with more established and unified cultures like the Met. The smaller ones tend to have similar problems, but they're usually weirder and more specific. On that note:
Sheila Roberts and Brian Adair – who both work for the agency dubbed Britain’s FBI – have been accused of unlawfully obtaining sensitive information, including intelligence reports and details of people inside NCA operations.
They were initially held on suspicion of misconduct in public office after their own agency investigated allegations of links between its staff and the criminal underworld.
Ms Roberts and Mr Adair worked on a drug-trafficking investigation by the NCA, which was set up by the Home Secretary, Theresa May, at the end of last year. All proceedings in relation to the allegations of misconduct in public office have been dropped by the Crown Prosecution Service.
Both officers have, however, been charged with data protection offences along with Glyn Evans, a former superintendent from Norfolk Police, who is listed as a co-director of a British private security firm that protects UK embassies across central America.
The two NCA officers remain suspended and are also subject to internal disciplinary proceedings. Details of the long-running case can only now be reported after The Independent overturned a court order banning any mention of the charges.
The prosecutions of Ms Roberts and Mr Adair are the first big blow for the NCA, which was handed a £450m budget to hunt down cyber criminals, drug barons, paedophile gangs and people traffickers. Last night, Keith Vaz, chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, said: “I am astounded by these revelations given the fact that this organisation was set up to provide a fresh approach to policing serious and organised crime. It is vital that all those who enforce the law act with the utmost integrity.”
The two NCA officers and Mr Evans, who is alleged to have unlawfully obtained secret counter-terrorism documents, are being prosecuted by the Information Commissioner, who enforces the Data Protection Act.
According to his Linked In page, Mr Evans spent 23 years with Essex Police before moving to Norfolk where he rose to be a superintendent. He then became a director of Corporate Security Consultants (CSC), based in Harlow, Essex. On its website, CSC claims to have provided security for British, American and Canadian diplomats – and one “member of the British Royal Family”.
The company’s co-director, Andrew John Mullen, was present in Sonsonate, El Salvador, in 2010 when one of CSC’s then employees, David Koch Arana, was arrested in possession of an M-16 rifle.
Mr Arana is a retired colonel from the El Salvador military and is a controversial figure in the region. Following a local outcry after the arrest, the UK ambassador to Guatemala, Julie Chappell, publicly backed Mr Mullen and told a newspaper that he was a “charitable and respectable businessman”.
The following year, Mr Mullen was made an MBE for “services to the British community, charitable activities and British commercial interests in Guatemala”.
A CSC spokesman said: “We were totally unaware that Mr Evans was involved in any ongoing investigation, and as soon as we were made aware of this fact his employment with the company was terminated immediately. Group CSC has had no further dealings with Mr Evans.”
Mr Evans, who is still listed as a CSC director at Companies House, was charged with unlawfully obtaining sensitive information in the form of a counter-terrorism tasking assessment classed as secret.
Brian Adair was charged with unlawfully obtaining sensitive information in the form of intelligence reports from a Soca (Serious Organised Crime Agency) operation.
Sheila Roberts was charged with three counts of unlawfully obtaining and disclosing sensitive information, including intelligence reports and information about people in another Soca investigation.
An NCA spokesperson said: “The NCA expects the highest standards of professionalism from all of its officers, and has a zero-tolerance approach to corruption.”
edited 22nd Mar '14 5:08:26 AM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Douglas Alexander is talking sense. However much I dislike UKIP (and every regular in this thread is well aware of my views), ignoring them is the worst thing anyone can do right now. Fact is, they strike an accord with many people, and have tapped nicely into the political apathy caused by the clustering of the three main parties. With New Labour moving to the right, Call Me Dave's Tories shifting a bit closer to the centre, and Clegg putting the Lib Dems nearer the centre by trying to water down the Tories, the differences are harder to spot for the layman.
Inevitably in such a scenario, any option that has sufficient volume and a few populist policies will attract huge support on the ground, and UKIP are that option. Happened plenty of times throughout history, with varying success.
Thing is, so far, UKIP don't have any M Ps or full control of any council - despite having a huge number of councillors and getting an increasing share of the vote, they haven't got a concentrated enough share of it in even one specific area. That limits what they can do, but allows them to continue playing the underdog card more easily. In a way, it's the best case scenario, as they can legitimately claim to not have any representation as such. Obviously they're looking to push forward and completely reshape the political landscape by translating their popular support into sitting, elected officials.
Not sure that will necessarily happen, though, at least not in a big way. The big two parties are so entrenched, as are the Lib Dems in certain areas (like Sheffield), that their own hardcore voters can't be overcome. I'll be very surprised if they don't get a single MP at the next general election though. Labour recruiting a full-time staff member to watch UKIP is a start, but it's a very late move that should have been taken ages ago.
So far, there are no real signs of any of the Big 3 parties doing enough to deal with UKIP. The Tories are trying to make themselves seem still relevant to their hard right wing, which is the key demographic that is defecting to UKIP, but in doing so they're also alienating themselves again from the centre and left wing voters that their overall political shift is trying to gain the support of. The Lib Dems are in serious trouble from all sides, and I reckon their defeat to an Elvis-impersonator wanting to legalise brothels is only the first of many election humilations this year. Labour have a worse orator for a leader than Ian Duncan Cough and haven't done a thing to make themselves appeal to laymen voters, even though they have cast off some of the crap that was holding them down by the end of the Brown years. People just can't see it because they can't convey it, and I don't think either Milliband will ever be capable of doing so.
That the big 3 are very busy dealing with Scotland right now only helps UKIP, as it gives them far less time to deal with the Council elections that UKIP look set to dominate.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
V
...and those alienated voters might vote UKIP as a protest vote.
Iain Duncan Smith? I'd agree — Ed Milliband does sound a lot like a smarmy privately-educated schoolboy, trying to get the best over his teacher, and Ed Balls does come across as a bit of a political bully.
edited 22nd Mar '14 9:05:29 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
Ian Duncan Cough was Smith's nickname in Private Eye because of his tendency to do so. He had a quietly spoken manner, which he did try to throw off but far too late. "Tory party cures nasty cough" was roughly how Private Eye reported the end of his tenure.
Sneering Imperialist
Doesn't matter how I vote, given how blue this constituency is, but I honestly have no idea how I'm going to vote in the next election. Probably a toss-up between Lib Dem and spoiled ballot paper.
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
It's kind of a moot point for me since I'll be able to vote SNP, but if I were in England, I'd be voting Lib Dem. I don't like that they sold their souls, but in the position they were in, they didn't have much choice. I still prefer them being there to a majority Tory government, and in any case, there's no other remotely practical choices on the left. Greens are too weak and that's about it other than the diddy parties.
Practicality needs to come ahead of anything else, ultimately, so I do have to hope the Lib Dems don't get wiped out. Clegg's fall from grace would be welcome (he failed to build on the success of the debates apart from anything else, netting the party an overall smaller share of the vote), but the party shouldn't have to suffer for him.
I don't see left wing voters going UKIP as a protest by the way, as it's counter-intuitive to their own views. Centrists though...yeah, that may well happen.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Labour? I know, I know, they're total shit, but the Lib Dems really showed their true colours in the coalition. I wouldn't expect anything resembling left-wing thought from a bunch who hold the Orange Book as their bible. They're soft-libertard shitstains whose sole virtue is that they're not completely horrible on social issues, and that's a virtue Labour shares to about the same degree.
I think I am going to have to vote Labour, but purely for damage-limitation purposes. I'm really, really hoping for the Greens to pull their heads out of their asses, dump the pseudoscientific woo, and start making themselves electable, though.
What's precedent ever done for us?
Sneering Imperialist
My view down to a tee, more or less. I don't want the Lib Dems wiped out because of Clegg's mistakes, and I think they have actually done a fair bit of good in moderating Tory excesses in this government.
Not nearly enough, mind, but some.
UKIP were never going to be an option for me. Aside from their xenophobia and latent racism, I'm about as pro-EU as it gets - which is another reason I don't want to abandon the Lib Dems, they wear their support of the EU on their sleeve.
The Orange Bookers aren't the only faction in the Lib Dems, although I will admit that they're currently uncomfortably influential.
edited 22nd Mar '14 11:39:27 AM by pagad
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
V
The party's name is the Liberal Democrats after all, and that's what the Orange Bookers are — Liberal. Which is, in policy terms, not too dissimilar to the views of David Cameron's Liberal faction of the Conservatives. That's how the Coalition was able to occur in the first place.
And on Coalitions: Labour-Lib Dem coalition idea nonsense, says Douglas Alexander
edited 22nd Mar '14 3:35:57 PM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
A procrastination in of itself
I'm gonna be voting Labour at the general but I'd certainly like to see a push by the Greens, seriously, where the hell are the Greens? UKIP is making loads of noise but I haven't heard anything out of the Green Party for ages.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
House Lewis: Sanity is Relative
I'd certainly like the Greens to be more active. They're just non-existent on the political scene, when they should have been doing all they could to capitalise on the renewed interest in climate change brought on by the floods. That was a silver platter handed to them, adorned with the perfect opportunity to promote their policies. And yet we saw nothing from them.
Poor show.
My name is Addy. Please call me that instead of my username.
Sneering Imperialist
"Wind farms and homeopathy for everyone!"
With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.
What kind of funding do the Greens have? I can't imagine their donors list includes very many wealthy corporate types.
Also, how similar are the Greens in England to the Scottish Greens?
Edit - Which political tribe are you?
I'm a Cosmopolitan Critic.
edited 22nd Mar '14 7:13:54 PM by TheBatPencil
And let us pray that come it may (As come it will for a' that)
A procrastination in of itself
100% Cosmopolitan Critic myself.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
V
That site isn't working for me at the moment.
Girls in gangs leading desperate lives, says report
Girls as young as eight are being used to carry drugs, it added.
The CSJ called for youth workers to be embedded in hospital trauma units to identify victims, and for more support to be given to help girls leave gangs. The CSJ - a right-leaning think tank established by current cabinet minister Iain Duncan Smith when he was Conservative Party leader - carried out the research with the London youth charity XLP, speaking to current and former gang members, voluntary organisations and government agencies.
96% Cosmopolitan Critic; 4% Hard-pressed Anxiety.
Never Trust
I'm American but the description of Long Term Despair pretty well describes me. FWIW I'd probably vote Lib-Dem with an occasional toss to the Conservatives if I lived over there.
Trump delenda est
Ahem, there is a non-Daily Mail source for that, yes? One without the strawman headline at least (it's about sharia-compliant wills, not laws).
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Mail link? C'mon, son.
Anyways, sharia law has been an option for civil (but not criminal) disputes for a while now. This is because UK citizens have always had the option of resolving non-criminal disputes via their religious law if both parties consent to it - the functionally identical Jewish beth din courts set the precedent, and are rather more common (hell, they've been around for a century and nobody's raised any fuss), but you can find damn near any kind of civil conflict-resolution agency you can think of if you look hard enough.
edited 23rd Mar '14 4:00:44 PM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
HGW XX/7
My succession law is (very) rusty, but I believe there is still a legal mechanism by which you can claim a portion of your parents' estate. Certainly, in Scotland, it is impossible to totally disinherit one's children.
If sharia wills are overriding British law, then that would be a problem, but I see no reason to suggest that that is the case.
Schild und Schwert der Partei
That first issue really really needs to be purged.
The catch, of course, is that our police forces have indeed had a problem with institutional racism for a long, long time (the ongoing Stephen Lawrence clusterfuck is an excellent example), which makes them and everyone else a bit hesitant about using them in cases like this. Well, that, and since they do have a problem with institutional racism (and to a lesser extent, sexism and classism), it's hard to get the British legal system to pay much attention to problems that primarily affect poor black women and girls regardless of that problem's cultural history. So it's less a single-cause 'omg political correctness gone mad' thing and more a symptom of the greater disease of our police being so fundamentally broken as an organisation in so many different ways that it's incredibly difficult for them to respond in a reasonable, adult manner to anything.
Don't get me wrong here, FGM is bad and reducing the amount that happens is good. I'm just explaining why such an unhelpful stance might have been adopted in the first place.
What's precedent ever done for us?