BBC: Should every child be made to play chess?

No, but they should be given the option, anyway.

Aren't they already given it? Maybe it's just my experience, but all the schools I have been in - and all those my relatives have been in - had some sort of chess club and/or of chess course...

But as I said, I'd rather children learned to play Poker.

edited 26th Apr '11 8:58:49 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Someone wants to turn Britain into Britannia.

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I don't think anyone should be forced to learn anything. (With the exception of lessons like 'don't bite your classmates'.) Make sure everyone has the opportunity to learn, encourage them to do so, but if they truly don't want to learn, don't force them. Forced learning is what makes most kids lose their love of learning. (How many 4 year olds hate learning?)

If I'm asking for advice on a story idea, don't tell me it can't be done.

The junior high I went to had a chess club, but the high school didn't. A lot of smaller schools don't have chess clubs (or much in the way of clubs at all) simply because they don't have the resources or enough students interested.

We didn't have a chess club at my high school oddly. To my knowledge anyway. What we did have was a go club. The go club also served as the general game club whether said games be traditional, tabletop RP Gs, CC Gs, or video games. So chess was part of the go club. Go and RP Gs were the primary things though. The anime club ate the go club and eventually the go club died.

MY EFFORTS TO KEEP THE LOVE OF GO ALIVE FAILED.

;_;

edited 26th Apr '11 10:17:28 AM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

I can't help but feel that Warhammer 40,000 would be a better choice of game.

With cannon shot and gun blast smash the alien. With laser beam and searing plasma scatter the alien to the stars.

Much like with education in classic literature, this sounds like an excellent way to keep children from ever enjoying chess again.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

-feels like the only one who enjoyed literature classes and the classics as taught in said classes-

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

If learning chess makes you better at memorization, wouldn't that be best for schooling as a whole as it would help in other subjects?

Also it might make getting through hall ways easier.

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Not really, as if you want to teach people how to memorize better, there are far more effective techniques.

This may*

sound ignorant, but isn't Go just the Japanese equivalent of Chess?

#IceBearForPresident

No, because teaching other subjects through memorization instead of method, problem solving, overall culture, etc. is half the problem with all those other subjects. Of everything I've done throughout majors in CS and phsyics, the list of things I've actually had to memorize because they didn't make sense as a natural part of some greater method or derivation is rather small — and every single time, those are the ones least solid in my head.

edited 26th Apr '11 1:46:25 PM by Pykrete

Can we just make people play RTS's instead?

I'm really good at Chess, but I'm really good at Chess because I played the shit out of Total War since the first Shogun and ever game in the series since, plus a billion other RTS's.

They teach you resource management, pattern recognition, geometry, and all those little analytical facts of warfare regarding momentum and trying to think several moves ahead of your opponent.

Don't know how many great Rome Total War battles I had where I sat there on pause going "Hmm.. If I commit here, his cavalry will charge into that flank.. But if I move these spearmen to this side then I'll let the cavalry come in and then attack them from behind with spearmen, thus boxing them in and annihilating the whole unit... That'll free my cavalry up to nail his archers without any of his other units being able to respond as he won't have reserves..."

Yeah, analytical as shit. Just like chess, more visual stimulation involved and thus easier for kids to get into.

No it is very, very far from the Japanese equivalent of chess. Go is the Japanese variant of a Chinese board game called wei-Qi. Both China and Japan have their own variants on the game we call chess. The Japanese version is called shogi. It plays more or less entirely like our chess. There are a few pieces unique to the Japanese game like the various spearmen. The Chinese chess game is xiangqi and is rather different from shogi though they exist within the chess family of games. Korea has its own variant of xiangqi called janggi. Korea also has a variant of go called baduk.

As for why the name go is used as opposed to the original Chinese wei-qi...no idea really. That's its name in the states though.

edited 26th Apr '11 2:06:19 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Huh, the more you know.

#IceBearForPresident

Indeed! Go doesn't start with pieces in a defined set up first off. New pieces are placed on the board with each turn. All pieces are the same value wise. There are no special pieces. Pieces cannot be moved unless they are captured and then they are simply removed from the board and placed in a container. Usually the lid of the stones bowl. It also goes by a point system that is either measured by territory (the amount of free space within figures made from your stones) or area (the amount of free space+the amount of stones). The game ends when both players pass on their turns because they have deemed there to be no more valuable moves to be made. Or because the one has deemed the game a lost cause on their end and resigns. Then points are added up...territory/area+prisoners+compensation points if you are playing white+dead stones if you are playing by Japanese rules.

Go is played on a 19x19 board usually. 13x13 and 9x9 are the other two common sizes. 13x13 is a quick game board while 9x9 is a beginner board. For more differences...stones are placed on points rather than inside squares like in most chess games.

edited 26th Apr '11 2:22:44 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

In a very shallow way, it pretty much fills the same role as the intellectuals game of choice. It is completely different, however, featuring extremely simple rules (both players take turns putting down a stone. whoever takes the most territory wins) with extremely complicated execution, relying more on actual tactics rather then pattern recognition to win.

Very easy to pick up, REALLY difficult to be even halfway competent with it. Probably not a very good choice for kids, as they will loose interest within seconds.

On the actual topic: I consider chess to be a part of general education, but not important enough for the school to take a huge interest in. Teach em the rules during a quiet afternoon, give those that want to play a place to play, and you are pretty much done.

The same goes for pretty much all other games mentioned here, really.

...and they won't lose interest with chess? In my experience most kids lack the patience to play either game for very long...I mean why play chess or go when you have video games and sticks to beat each other up with?

edited 26th Apr '11 2:38:16 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

^

As long as those video games contain the same base problem solving situations there's no reason you can't dress them up with better visual stimulation and get the same effect.

Oh I have nothing against playing such games really. I am in support of the suggestion you made. The RTS thing. Just pointing out that most kids these days won't spend time on chess in my experience.

edited 26th Apr '11 2:50:30 PM by Aondeug

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Yeah, I have to admit that while I like Chess, there's other things I'd rather do. Video games are among them.

But I'd rather my kid played an RTS that had critical thinking involved than some mindless and unchallenging piece of garbage.

And no, that whole "But FPS's make hand eye coordination improve!" argument doesn't fly with me. I like my FPS's, but I really wish they would make one that incorporated cover and team tactics legitimately instead of what's out these days.

Dawn of War 2(A game severely inferior to 1...) actually has those critical thinking scenarios. Squad A is suppressed by the enemy, and they won't win in a stand up slugging match. You can either fall back and take some losses, or send Squad B around to flank, or use some sort of specialist unit, either one that can rapidly close the distance with a jetpack, or a unit immune to suppression, etc.

edited 26th Apr '11 2:55:42 PM by Barkey

What are you supposed to learn from RTSs? Basic tactics (or at least, what's left over after cutting out 90% of logistics and communications problems)?

I can't say I've ever understood the idea of teaching «problem solving».

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I do not care much for chess. I'd rather play go. GO. Unfortunately most people don't want to play it with me in real life. MY BOARD. IT ROTS. There are other things I would rather do than play go online. Like read. Or play stupid shumps with my girlfriend. Now playing go in real life...that's different. I'd prefer that to reading and many other things.

And yes Tzetze that is the idea with using RTS games. A sort of hands on way to learn basic tactics.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah