Should people meet halfway in social interactions?

This deals primarily with introverts and extroverts, those that take some time with (primarily) new social interactions, and those than can dive right in.

The question came up with the arrival of a new girl to the Christian group I frequent. She was incredibly shy and reserved, and as we did with anyone we meet, members of the group challenged each other to step up and get to know her, as she may be a good friend. Think what you want of that, but that's what happened: everyone tried to get this shy girl involved, only so far as she was comfortable of course. Never with any pressure, invites to events and hangouts went out like clockwork, and she always accepted since, as she personally admitted, she wanted to be a bit more outgoing.

It'd be an understatement to say that it was incredibly hard to get this person to be more outgoing. Talking to her was the equivalent of talking to yourself or a mirror, as one would do all talking, getting very few responses out of her. Ask a question, and she'd respond with as few words as possible. Fish around for interests and hobbies, and you'd get a very small list. Try to let her expand on that list to make her more comfortable taking over the conversation, and you'd get very short responses. Try to get her with a group to do something together, anything, would result in her staying by herself 10 times out of 10. This has been confusing for me to take part in and watch, since there have been multiple introverted, shy people who have expressed that they were less so and, when involved, bloomed and grew into their own, where she seemed adamant about being left to herself.

I wrote it off as someone shy who wanted to try being extroverted, was uncomfortable with it, and stayed the way they were. In short, not a problem. Until she started an event and extended invitations that focused on helping those introverted people more.

Strike 1: She bothered to make the event in the first place, which is a huge slap in the face of those that have tried to get closer to her as a friend, which says their efforts weren't quite up to snuff.

Strike 2: She mentions that the event will be an inversion of usual get-togethers, in which extroverts talk exclusively with introverts, and vice versa. This is the meeting halfway that people have tried to do, which apparently doesn't work.

Strike 3: She played the God card in a group of people that are very Christian. Doing so, for those playing the home game, is a challenge to one's faith, in that if you can't do what the event would require (simply being nice and outgoing to shy people), your faith is weak and you're not a "good enough" Christian.

The TL;DR version: A shy girl, after multiple attempts to help her become less introverted, feels that those comfortable with social interactions owe her something. Do you think that extroverts should go the extra mile to interact with introverts, and vice versa, or do you think that people should meet each other halfway?

Neither. Interact with who you want to. Nothing should be required for human interaction.

"Do you think that extroverts should go the extra mile to interact with introverts, and vice versa, or do you think that people should meet each other halfway?"

I can understand your frustration. But I'm biased, being very introverted and wanting to be extroverted. I'm so lonely and I just can never approach people I don't know. I want friends, in theory, but I can't. I like it when someone talks to me, even if it doesn't seem like it. I wish more people would talk to me. So yeah. I wish people would go the extra mile whenever possible, but any miles would be great.

edited 21st Apr '11 4:34:27 PM by LoveHappiness

Maybe I just don't understand the extrovert mindset, but from my perspective, as an introvert of sorts, attempting to be sociable among people I don't feel totally comfortable with is just totally like, "what how do i do that?". It's just physically impossible. I freeze up, I run out of things to say, I feel embarrassed, I feel like I'm bothering people just by being there, I know that if I say anything at all it will be weird and it will make people think, "WTF is wrong with you?". When people are conversing in that kind of setting, I literally can't participate, because whenever I'm about to say anything somebody else says something which changes the flow of the conversation.

Whereas I assumed that, for an extrovert, talking to introverts was a piece of cake.

That said, no, I don't think you are entitled to attention from people who don't want to talk to you, and I don't think you are obligated to talk to people you don't like talking to.

edited 21st Apr '11 4:40:51 PM by BobbyG

Fascinating. I'm an introvert even I'm not that time, it just takes someone else to initiate to help me be a bit of a livewire and open up. I think the lady stranger here may have more than a bit of an introversion problem.

I do agree that both sides need to sort of meet half way in order for these social interactions to work.

I kind of shift, at a party or during a long conversation I usually go full burn extrovert for the first half of it, and then I've dumped all my energy and just go chill in a corner with a beer and listen to what other people have to say.

[1] I desperately want this.

You're not obligated to do a damn thing. At all. I guess it might be nice of you to go the extra mile though.

^^ Substances like that can make you more confident only at the expense of self-awareness. You might regret it afterwards.

"You're not obligated to do a damn thing. At all. I guess it might be nice of you to go the extra mile though."

Just this or everything? Personally I like philosophical egoism. On the other hand, I'm not too comfortable with the idea that it's OK to ignore people in desperate need. So I also take the perspective of maximizing utilitarianism. The idea that everyone should the most possible to reduce suffering has a lot of appeal to me. Although this doesn't have much to do with this, I'm really rambling...

edited 21st Apr '11 5:03:28 PM by LoveHappiness

I think I may have been confusing myself, so I'll clarify a bit.

When I mention that people should meet each other halfway with social interactions, I here mean that, for an example, an extrovert might walk up to an introvert, and strike up a conversation, inviting whoever they were talking with to continue it with them. Contrariwise, an introvert might just say something small such as, "Hi, how are you?", and expect a conversation to bloom from that, which the extrovert might be able to carry quite a bit of.

When I was an introvert back in my high school days, I always wished that someone would talk to me so I could get some social interaction, but when none happened, I realized that I might be at fault, in some way, for that; I can feel very much the same way as an extrovert, if I should talk to someone, carry too much of the conversation, and complain that a good conversation's hard to find.

Going that extra mile, for me at least, isn't someone walking up to a shy person and striking up a conversation (while intimidating for either party, it's the basics of social interaction), but going up to a shy person, and realizing that in order to get to know Bob sitting by his lonesome in the corner, Alice is going to not only do most of the talking, but most of the interacting.

I always like when someone mentions being in need of social interaction, not because I don't believe it, but because it implies that no one is noticing. If you (a shy person, I'm guessing/assuming, if you'll pardon me) know that you're in need of social interaction or in need of practice to socialize properly within the norms set by the society and community you're a part of, then why not take the first step to learn yourself? There are books, movies, how-to's, and even close personal friends who might be able to offer advice on the subject besides the common, "I don't know, you just talk to someone."

This is not a personal attack on you or other shy people, as I've no idea and am genuinely curious about the subject, but if shy people know they're in need of decent social interaction, or want to be more extroverted and "out there", why don't they take the first step themselves, instead of waiting for someone else to come along and help them?

edited 21st Apr '11 5:11:39 PM by Newfable

Not every introvert wants company. Some just enjoy being alone. Constant attempts to engage them could come off as being... Whats that word for trolling in real life.

"why don't they take the first step themselves, instead of waiting for someone else to come along and help them?"

Fear, fear, fear and fear. And terrible self-control, I admit. Really though, since long ago I lost any hope in being able to interact with people. I miss having friends, I really want them but I'm terrified, have no self-control, and absolutely no confidence or hope about it.

No you're not obligated to do anything for anyone, Love Happiness. In general. You don't have to give a beggar change. You don't have to say thank you to someone who opened a door for you. You don't have to feel any sort of actual respect or love for anyone including your parents. You could be a two-faced backstabbing asshole if it's what you wanted. It's certainly nice of you if you do say thank you and do other "nice" things though. I myself aim to do nice things and be a "good" person. I am Buddhist after all.

On introverted people not taking the first step: Sometimes this can be done and sometimes it works fantastically. Other times it is like asking someone to fly with just their arms. It's not going to work. Actually it might even make matters worse.

All I have is anecdotal evidence so...Let's use myself, yeah? Now by nature I am an extrovert. I more or less feed off other people and enjoy social interaction a lot. A whole hell of a lot. Due to bullying and constant moving I cut myself away from people and tried to become an extreme introvert as a way to protect myself from harm. Unfortunately it was doing even more harm. If I didn't have my psychology teacher around to have given me that first kick and help me out I might still be the same miserable thing that avoided people because she was convinced the only way to battle attachment and untrustworthy people was to avoid contact with people as much as possible. I was afraid. Horribly afraid of any sort of pain.

It wasn't a fast thing either. He had to try a lot. A whole hell of a lot. It took him 3 years to help get me to where I am today. All while he was helping other students with issues and doing his teacher thing. Man lives for his job and his students.

This isn't saying that all people like this should be forced though. Some people are honestly happy with whatever little interaction they get and don't need anything more. In fact it may just wear them out. People are different.

edited 21st Apr '11 5:25:11 PM by Aondeug

I wonder what the story from the other side would be.

@Newfable

Uh yeah, this basically, and difficulty with change, but mostly fear and discomfort.

I personally like social interactions but it isn't exactly as easy as extroverts seem to make it. I guess somewhere along how they were raised they learned how to do certain things with confidence and without discomfort.

In my case, I probably would've ended up as well adjusted as the next guy if I didn't move and have to suddenly be conscientious of the fact that there is more beyond my cul de sac and there is a world of different people and cultures you need to learn to adapt to and learn not to offend anybody, and the sudden shift in situation just made me shy I guess.

Probably wouldn't have been so bad if we hadn't moved again and was in a situation where I was bullied for 2.5 years and went without friends and basically had an overall terrible experience with people that made me frightened of being hurt again and being afraid of going into a social situation and doing something "Wrong". I now sort of overhtink situations and always see that there is a "Right" and "Wrong" answer to "How do you interact with these new people with no knowledge of them, no idea how they respond, or anything?"

EDIT: Uh, basically my story is similar to Aondeug's only without the recover and help. I'm only just getting that now and the process is frightfully slow but hopefully baby steps. I just wish this was caught earlier at the height of my issues instead of now far past the time being open would've helped like High School.

edited 21st Apr '11 5:32:59 PM by MousaThe14

People should work on getting over their hangups instead of expecting others to do the legwork for them.

Yeah it happens slowly and painfully...Not a pleasant thing and you'll need a shit ton of effort on your end. Still having someone to actually convince you to start working on such a change is a lovely thing I must say. As is having that person continue to put up with your shit and continue to help you even if you are a whiny cunt who gives up far too much.

"No you're not obligated to do anything for anyone"

Including myself?

I know not to expect that by now. The years of desperate wallowing has made me understand that. Still, I don't trust myself at all. It's impossible. Therapy and meds don't seem to work. I hope I die early, or get "cured" by someone. I can't be anything myself.

edited 21st Apr '11 5:45:43 PM by LoveHappiness

That includes yourself, yes.

Very true, sometimes all it takes is a nudge, and other times it requires a relationship to build a relationship.

I think most extroverts might not see it that way though, as they may be unable to relate to the problem that introverts may be experiencing, seeing social interactions as nothing to lose sleep over, even if it may provide some discomfort.

Of course, at the point where people need a lot of help becoming more extroverted, if that's what they want, it's less a problem about social interaction mechanics and more of a self-esteem issue.

Newfable, I'm a bit confused as to why you consider her event a "slap in the face". Th extroverts were trying things that would work for them but that didn't work for her; it sounds like her thing was her trying to say "That doesn't really work, can you try this?"

I mean, to an extrovert, an open-ended question is clearly an invitation and opportunity to talk — that's part of what being an extrovert is. But to an introvert, it's often doesn't have the same effect —- it can have a chilling effect instead because it leaves them with no idea od where to go with the answer.

You're right, it's definitely her trying to reach out and say that what was working isn't working. But by suggesting the same thing that people have been trying for so long, and ending up with nothing but failure? Isn't there something askew in asking people who have tried to go out of their way to talk to you to attend an event where the idea is to go out of your way to talk to others?

Less to the point, I know, but while there are a good number of introverted people that attend this Christian group in question (that the lady in question also attends), most, if not all of them, realize that they're introverted, and look to others for help, guidance, etc. should they want to be more outgoing. Meaning that for this event, where more outgoing people are challenged to talk to the more shy wallflowers, there will most likely be a distinct lack of any major wallflowers present, save for her.

Just seems to me to be a cry for help dealing with a nasty self-esteem issue instead of an earnest attempt at getting back up on the old horse. Still, if that's the issue, then why the need to make a big deal out of creating such an event? Wouldn't the publicizing of the event in question, and inviting a bunch of people to it the first step in being extroverted in the first place, thus rendering the event in question pointless?

Color me curious I suppose. I just find such behavior odd, is all.

Let me get this straight: you're expecting someone with essentially no social skills to be perfectly tactful and considerate to you?

You do realize it translates, right? There is nobody who knows exactly what to do to make people like them and just won't do it. If she doesn't have enough social skills to even keep a conversation going, she's not going to have nearly enough to know you'd take offense to this.

As an ambivert-leaning-in, I don't think extroverts are "obligated" to reach out to introverts, though I am split on it: it would either be a nice gesture, or simply annoying. Depending on the person, obviously.