Note to EA, Bioware: you can't stop piracy. EVER.

↑↑If the game has DRM, breaking the DRM (mind, not necessarily executing "distribution" piracy) it is still the ethical thing to do. Getting the game pirated has the advantage that it'll teach game devs to simply not associate with people who will screw up their projects. At some point they have to man up and say "we don't want people to hate and ruin us because of some middleman".

Fanfic Recs orwellianretcon'd: cutlocked for committee or for Google?

I used to pirate games like a motherfucker, but Steam changed my habits because it made it easy and relatively affordable (provided I was patient) to buy games legally.

Laziness is a powerful motivator that way.

I'm not against DRM. I just believe that models like Steam where convenience, competitive pricing and early releases are given as trade-offs for the inconvenience of mild "check me first" DRM are the best solutions for maximising publisher revenue.

Attempts at draconian DRM schemes won't dissuade the hardcore pirates (quite the opposite. It'll just elicit a "BRING IT, FAGGOT!" response) while unnecessarily antagonising legitimate users. The mindset that all pirates can be stopped is destructive. A more realistic mindset aimed at providing incentives for as many potential pirates as possible to become legitimate users would be more profitable.

Even the music industry's big record labels figured this out a few years ago. They went from suing people, to putting rootkits and other crap on their C Ds which made them unplayable on most music players, to finally realising that "swappers gonna swap" and conceding to make iTunes DRM free and the price of digital downloads slightly lower than physical media as an incentive. It hasn't exactly ruined their revenue base.

edited 15th Apr '11 2:25:28 PM by TibetanFox

@Last page

Here we go again with this sweeping "pirates are selfish bastards" statement. Truth is there are plenty of reasons, or excuses, to pirate. Maybe their parents don't want to fork out the cash to buy such games. Maybe they're just too lazy or cheap. Maybe they just want to try a game out (whether that translates to actually deciding whether or not to buy is another matter). Maybe they just despise a company to the point they'll rather pirate a game instead of buy "in protest". Maybe their original copy is damaged. Or maybe originals are just plain expensive (It's not like the gaming community only covers first world countries).

I used to pirate games for years until I bagged a job and a decent salary, yet I still pirate if I have my doubts about a game. I've spent hundreds of dollars each on games which turned out to be major disappointments (SimCity Societies, or the DRM-heavy Spore, or Mafia II) to know that going completely legit is never always a good thing.

edited 15th Apr '11 2:36:40 PM by MalagasyParrot

Ah, the usual defense that boils down to "Games are an inalienable right that I deserve for free whenever I choose."

Oh, and I like the post at the top of this page that suggests that developers forgo the money needed to actually make their games rather than associate with publishers who use DRM.

"So hey, we're EA and we're the only company willing to publish your game. You in?"

"Hell no, I'm still mad about that Mass Effect DRM!"

^Yeah, that works much better. Problem is that the studios that companies like EA and Activision already have aren't infuriated enough to leave. (It's worth noting, however, that there are cases like Infinity Ward, Petroglyph and Jet Set Games; developers who leave a publisher).

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

I agree with Tibetan Fox. The majority of people who pirate do so because of the convenience of torrenting- if you provide said people with a service like Steam that provides them a quick and easy way to get games at an economic price (Though I'm still incredibly pissed at this Region specific price BS that sometimes gets pulled on Australia- I go for steam specifically because retail is a bloody ripoff here don't just give me the same price on steam "to keep it competitive with retailers") then those people will easily switch over to the equally convenient, and legal, way of getting hold of games.

Most people aren't pirates by nature, if there's an equally convenient and legal method of getting hold of things then they'll go for that instead. As for the others...well who gives a crap about people who were never customers to begin with.

Statistics would prove you wrong, but as I mentioned at the top of the thread, I already know this site is rather pro-piracy and the entitlement mentality of pirates too strong for mere facts or logic to stop.

In terms of piracy, if the legal copy has more issues than the pirated copy, the company did something seriously wrong, and most DRM cause issues that result in that. Generally, DRM does not work, because those determined to pirate will still pirate and those who don't pirate will suffer the consequences of DRM and be turned off of buying games.

Wizard Needs Food Badly

By providing DRM-free games, pirates are providing a valuable service, but we've got to remember that they're the reason we need that service in the first place. I think of them similarly to script thieves in the 1600s—we came dangerously close to losing Shakespeare's work just because he never wrote it down himself. It'll be hard enough to play old games a hundred years from now without factoring in DRM problems. (And yes, they do matter. Grand Theft Auto may not be great art, but the series says a lot about America's changing views of criminals. Without games, historians will have a harder time understanding our time period.)

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

Because in the future, nobody will ever sell old games. Grand Theft Auto will never be re-released over and over again in the future. Services like Go G.com will vanish and Virtual Console will go away.

Seriously, could pirates at least stop being so sanctimonious about their piracy? I have more respect for the assholes that brag about never paying for games because at least they're honest about why they're doing it.

That's the single greatest argument for DRM I've ever heard.

Fight smart, not fair.

Like I said, without pirates, we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

I'm with Rebochan. You can say that the publishers are charging too much, or that you wouldn't play them otherwise, but this all assumes that you have the right to play the game for free. It doesn't matter if they charge two dollars or a thousand dollars. They're making it, and if you want it then you do so on their terms.

I can understand why someone would pirate software, but I would never deny that it is anything less than theft. Not horrendous, but still wrong.

edited 15th Apr '11 11:30:57 PM by RTaco

Well, I suppose we'd appreciate their games more and be more willing to buy them if we knew what we were getting into when we buy their games. I'll at least give EA the credit of informing you that an Internet connection is required for their games...in small print on the back of the boxes, but information nonetheless.

edited 15th Apr '11 11:35:09 PM by RocketDude

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Pirating being wrong and me: It probably is. I just don't care.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Why bother pirating? Sorry to ask, but it just seems a bit weird to be that bothered about games. I mean I occasionally buy them, but if I have made a poor purchase I am not going to lament and pull my hair out, its the freakin' entertainment industry not sponsering a child in Africa.

Because I am poor, some of my games break or get lost and I don't feel like buying them again, some of the games are old as fuck and not available on VC yet (HI EARTHBOUND), and because I don't really care about it being wrong?

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

Yeah, given that the game industry is making less and less room for the all-mighty Refund, every dollar you spend or save counts.

"Hipsters: the most dangerous gang in the US." - Pacific Mackerel

Here's a different question instead. If he hadn't pirated the game, he wouldn't've bought it either, right? How is this situation economically different from the publisher's (or the developer's, for that matter) point of view?

I made a point of buying every game I ever pirated and LIKED once I had the cashflow to back it up via Steam or Impulse (and the occasional localized release, though these haven't improved in quality OR quantity since the nineties), and re-buying a couple that deserved it. I'm well aware of how piracy ruins developers and the like, but living in a country which still doesn't get all the good games (and when it does, most of them are only available in "Blind Idiot" Translation) via legal channels does have its downsides. So yes, I sometimes buy a game and then pirate it just to be able to play it in English instead of broken Russian (ayup, sometimes I think those localization teams know it worse than the developers do - Splinter Cell was a victim of a series of such Translation Trainwreck cases). Speaking of which, the Splinter Cell Collection is on sale on Steam, gotta go get me that to re-buy Chaos Theory and legalize Double Agent...

edited 16th Apr '11 12:15:56 AM by Noelemahc

Videogames do not make you a worse person... Than you already are.

I don't steal games with DRM, I just don't buy them. When they stop putting DRM on games, I'll start buying them again.

Here's a question from the pirates - why is your "right" to play games greater than the "right" for the people who are creating them to ask that you pay for them for the privilege?

I know pirates really hate it when you bring logic into a discussion because it gets in the way of their entitlement complexes, but games are entertainment. A luxury. Not a right. What gives you the right to say that someone who is trying to make a living off of games owes you their game, whenever you want, and MAYBE you'll pay them? "I'm poor"? Hey, well guess what? Those of us that pay for our games do this little thing called budgeting. When I really, really want something, I save money. If I don't have money, I do without. You know, like you're expecting the developers to do since you don't think they "deserve" the money for every game you play. Kind of like how if I don't have enough money for a car, I don't just drive off with the dealer's car.

I mean, if you really cared that much about boycotting publishers for DRM, presumably you'd just...not play the game. Not download it. Not patronize them in any way. It's called "I am willing to go without to make a point." But that would require actual effort, therefore pirates essentially take the practice of "I am willing to keep my money AND not go without. And pretend to make a point while enjoying free stuff."

Still don't care.

If someone wants to accuse us of eating coconut shells, then that's their business. We know what we're doing. - Achaan Chah

The people claiming their "right" to play games without acknowledging the need to repay the makers (either by buying or, if the game is freeware, at least promoting or donating) need to be publicly spanked. Because executions aren't humane and something psyche-devastating HAS to be done. Flogging is an acceptable alternative. I only ever pirated when there was NO alternative and no conceivable form of buying or importing. Equally inexcusable, but not in any way economically affecting the publisher or the developer besides providing word-of-mouth advertisement and brand recognition which may or may not help later down the road when the games or their successors are legally available.

Videogames do not make you a worse person... Than you already are.

If I had to guess, it would be because it's something that is effectively post scarcity so normal property rights don't apply, mixed with "you can't stop me, neener neener neener". I say this as someone who doesn't pirate games, and merely waits for them to drop to a third or less of their original price, while purchasing about .75 games per year.

Fight smart, not fair.

Is anything going to be gained by having this argument again? I don't see anything remotely novel or interesting, and by past results it'll just go that way until people piss each other off enough to lose their shit. So I'm locking this pre-emptively now.

A brighter future for a darker age.