Of Online Journals, Nettiquette, and Life Problems: Should I Speak Up?

Warning: Storytime Imminent(TM).

So I'm part of another forum, and that forum has an area set aside for "user journals": Individual topics per user which people use in a journal-like fashion, both for recording stuff that happens on the site and real life. For the sake of this topic, it's effectively the same as any other online journal. Now, these topics are open for everybody to read, and although each topic is personal, it's considered a public space still. It's understood that anything you post there, anyone can see, and, frequently, they do (because several users read people's journals habitually, because often people post fun things like quizzes or You Tube links in them).

So that's the general background.

Now, I read people's journals, usually, and recently, one user has started posting things about her becoming anorexic again. She has battled with this before, and has alluded to it, but now she's talking about it again. As is the way of things, she seems very excited to be getting "actually skinny" (she's already slight), and from the sound of it, no one in her life is dissuading her at the moment. She's even discussing her rather... extreme diet plans (less than 500 calories a day) and generally hating on her body, which isn't thin enough for her liking. ...Which is pretty much what anorexia is.

This user and I are not... particular friends. We know each other, have conversed, and generally like each other, but we aren't super-close or anything. This is also the Internet, which is also percieved by many people as being less personal. However, I want to know: Should I talk to her about this and how what she's doing is unhealthy?

My "Care For Humanity" senses tell me I should. After all, even if we're not great friends, we still generally like and respect each other, and I just tend to care for people in general. No one in her life is telling her no, and she seems to have told a number of people, so I feel like someone should.

On the other hand, this is the Internet, and from her perspective, I may look like a meddler. Even if I say something, there's no guarantee she'll listen. We're not close, so why should my words hold water for her, especially given how enthusiastic she seems to be? What bearing do I hold in her life? If I say the wrong thing, she could get mad at me and start ignoring me, which would not only put a damper on our friendship, it would hinder my attempts to help her. And I don't have authority over her and I'm not in a position to force her to do anything, so that's not an option. And yet I can't entirely say it's not my business, because, by broadcasting her thoughts in a public space that's understood to be open to the entire community, she's sort of made it the business of anyone who happens to read her journal by sharing it with us. Or is she? I don't know.

I suppose, technically, she's just a stranger on the Internet, as am I. But I consider her a good person, and like her even if we aren't absolutely best friends. I don't want her to hurt herself.

Teal deer: An accquaintance of mine has an eating disorder. I don't know if I should speak to her about it or not because I don't know her that well. But I care anyway because that's the kind of person I am.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

I say do it. After all, karma could reward you for doing so.

In these situations, no one feels like it is their place to say anything, so usually nothing ends up being said (not that I am particularly hopeful about someone turning their life around as a result of a friend pointing out they look unhealthy). I say, do it.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Do it.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

I would say yes, you should. I probably would if I were in that situation.

I'm going to say "no". I hate it when random people give me unrequited diet advice.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Pointing out that one is on the brink of an eating disorder is not dieting advice.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

Yes it is.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

^^^^they wouldn't be unrequited if you gave them diet advice back.

I'd imagine that doing nothing would be a greater hindrance to your helping her.

edited 12th Apr '11 10:11:26 PM by petrie911

Belief or disbelief rests with you.

No, I'm not. It's just a personal peeve of mine that people think that they're entitled to step in and criticize personal diet choices. Yes, it's unhealthy, and yes, she probably already knows this. Pointing it out isn't going to do anything except make it worse.

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Admittedly I would be nervous, though. I think it would be worth it to at least try, though.

DG, are you of the opinion that people are entitled to the right to self-harm?

I don't mean this sarcastically, either.

I wouldn't say for sure that the acquaintance knows the full implications of what she's doing though... I mean of course I don't know what it's like to be her, but I've been in a weird deluded state where common sense doesn't exist and it seems reasonable to ignore biological and physical facts.

edited 12th Apr '11 10:22:35 PM by melloncollie

"No, I'm not. It's just a personal peeve of mine that people think that they're entitled to step in and criticize personal diet choices. Yes, it's unhealthy, and yes, she probably already knows this. Pointing it out isn't going to do anything except make it worse."

There's no entitlement here. The girl is ill, and the choices one is confronted with are a) try to help and b) watch her waste away. Anorexia is usually (from my immediate observations, at least)a disorder related to the body image. The sooner the girl realizes that her projected ideal weight is grossly unhealthy and unattractive, the better.

And better than thy stroke; why swellest thou then?

I'd say mention it once and let it drop if she responds in a way that is anything short of explicitly indicating want you to continue.

...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.

@Madru: Seems sound to me. I think I'll just approach her casually about it; maybe not overboard "OMG YOU'RE HURTING YOURSELF STOP NOW WTF" but more, "have you seriously considered the repercussions of your actions?" And if she wants me to back off, well, maybe I should.

No matter how many times you tell someone something, unless you're in a position of power over them, you can't necessarily make them listen. I have no such power, so I suppose I'll do the best I can.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

@Mellon & Kash: The problem is that the direct method ignores the root problem. Most people with eating disorders are doing it because of an underlying issue, most likely to do with self esteem and body image. Binge eating and anorexia are two sides of the same coin. Binge eaters tend to console themselves with food, to induce a chemical euphoria. Anorexics tend to view themselves as "flawed" and think that losing weight will solve their problems.

For example, people who bite their nails. Most everybody knows that it's not a good habit, but some people chew their nails when stressed or anxious. Getting on their case about it restarts the stress/anxiety cycle, and makes them bite their nails more.

Same deal here. The anorexic generally sees herself as "ugly", and aspires to unachievable beauty standards. Restricting caloric intake reassures her that she's in control, and that she can make herself "pretty". Someone who's basically a stranger getting on her case about it will only start the cycle again. "They don't like me. I have to be pretty so I can impress them. They'll like me more if I just lose five more pounds..."

---

And honestly, she's probably getting reinforcement from friends and family. If you're really concerned about her, try being her friend first. Figure out why she's doing this, and slowly work against it.

edited 12th Apr '11 10:52:38 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

"I don't know how I do it. I'm like the Mr. Bean of sex." -Drunkscriblerian

Pretty much that. I'm no doctor, but I know enough about these anxiety-driven things to know that improperly meddling, as a fringe person, could make her less receptive to comments from people who actually matter to her (her family; her friends) or make the problem worse as it stands.

We do have common interests and have bonded over them (we both like conlang stuff, and I taught her about IPA), so I sent her a message just sort of gingerly inquiring about it for now. Just sort of asking if she wants to talk. Hopefully it's delicate enough.

"Proto-Indo-European makes the damnedest words related. It's great. It's the Kevin Bacon of etymology." ~Madrugada

I would say to approach her, but not in a "you need to stop doing this now" sort of way. Ask her why she feels that way about it, maybe? Suggest she speak to somebody in real life?

I agree that you shouldn't just stand around doing nothing while she's harming herself.

Be not afraid...

@ DG: Well uh, duh. I don't think anyone was suggesting getting in there and yelling at them to stop would help, but that they should be getting some sort of help. (assuming one's not ok with people's right to self-harm)

Damn beat me to the take it slow and soft approach. Real soft and slow. Its probably their first time with a stranger helping them.

I think nettiquette dictates to rub your genitals in a fun way while writing semi-snarky and potential sexual things. Then insult them and run once they gain your trust.

Please.

This isn't meddling in someone's diet, it's pointing out that they've likely got a mental illness. Tell her you're worried, and that (as I've assume you've seen her) she doesn't look at all like she needs to lose weight. And that this leads you to the conclusion that she may be anorexic, and that the least she could do is to see a doctor about it. It's worth mentioning that if it is anorexia, she's unlikely to ever be happy with her appearance no matter how much weight she loses. So her best bet to be happy and healthy is to consider that it might not be her that is the problem. That would be a gentler approach than your average "Intervention" style plan.

NOTE: I am on the internet and have no relevant degrees. Zero guarantees.

edited 13th Apr '11 12:34:41 AM by Alexander_UE

Profile | Talk to Me | Note: Check your irony detector before replying.

That's your choice. And what she's doing is her choice. Were I in her position, I'd prefer it if you kept it to yourself. But then, I'm not the sort of person who'd write a damn journal. I don't know how a person like that feels about people commenting on their life choices.

You would be a meddler, offering unwelcome help. If you desire to be a more effective meddler by disguising your status as such, you'll probably have to be careful not to come off as pushy, condescending, shaming, or dismissive. It's easy to offend when your essential attitude is "you shouldn't want what you want".

I don't can't predict her reaction, but I know that in my experience, people in your position tend to come off more often than not as untrustworthy manipulators who underestimate my intelligence, regard my perceptions and values as invalid, and lack respect for my autonomy. I don't know a surefire way to avoid that.

I don't know how well this advice will translate to this situation, but:

You know those old folks who get scammed into spending all their money on some fool's gold offer, and then, when their kids confront them with evidence that it's a scam, they just put more money into it?

What I read about this the other day is that it's a means of saving face. The victim has two conflicting pieces of data: "I am generally a smart person" (because most people tend to think this) and "Only a dumb person would fall for that kind of scam" (an image the relatives are reinforcing with their reaction).

To resolve the conflict, the victim has two choices. Choice One is to admit "I'm not as smart as I think I am." Choice Two is to prove that it really was a smart choice, by doing more of it until it pays off (Sunk Cost fallacy).

Choice Three is to realize that this is a False Dilemma, and that even very smart people fall for these kinds of scams. Therefore, the advice in the article I was reading was Help them save face.

Basically, as you're telling them about the scam, make it clear that you still think they're smart; that these scam artists are good enough to con even very smart people; that you won't think the less of them if they admit it; etc.

A similar approach might work in the case of anorexia... but of course it's a mental disorder, and hence can't just be tossed aside like an old cloak. But I'd think this would help: Reinforce your friend's worth as a person, and try to separate that worth from body-image. Coax, or hint, rather than force the issue. And, depending on how much she feels like sharing, maybe try to get into some non-judgmental conversations about how she first went anorexic, and her feelings on the matter.

Same disclaimer as others have said: I've no expertise in this area, I'm just passing along tidbits I've picked up here and there. That might not even apply to this situation.

Good luck, though.

Only the curious have, if they live, a tale worth telling at all.