Confusing description: Gaiden Game

It's come to my attention that the description for Gaiden Game has a hard time describing what the concept actually is. Perhaps I'm wrong, but my understanding is that in order to be a Gaiden Game, it needs to have at least one of the following features:

1. It follows a side character in a previous game or games.
2. It tells the same story as a previous game or games but from a new perspective.
3. It doesn't fit in canonically with the main series
4. It doesn't require playing the main series or game in order to fully understand the plot
5. You don't have to play it to fully understand further games in the series.

Am I wrong on this?

At any rate, the description could use some clarification and some of the examples seem a bit iffy.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Sounds about right to me. It's just a little more nuanced in that neither 4 nor 5 appearing by itself is sufficient.

edited 11th Apr '11 11:04:36 AM by BigT

Everyone Has An Important Job To Do

Hmmm. What about the Breath Of Fire IV fishing game for cellphones? It canonically fits with the main game, technically. In fact, it doesn't fit any of the first three. It just has an Excuse Plot, so not playing Breath Of Fire IV won't hurt playing this game, and vice versa. Is it not a Gaiden Game, then? Or does it count because it has both 4 and 5?

edited 11th Apr '11 11:20:27 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

I think using the term "Gaiden" is unnecessary. We should just call it "Sidestory Game"

There's also the rather unfortunate fact that I can name at least two games with the word "Gaiden" in their title that do not fit that criteria.

(and no, I don't mean Ninja Gaiden)

edited 11th Apr '11 11:22:46 AM by SakurazakiSetsuna

I'd be okay with that, too. Gaiden Game doesn't seem to be that widespread a preexisting term. Searching for it brings up our page, and then a mountain of Ninja Gaiden links.

EDIT: There isn't even an Urban Dictionary definition or Wikipedia article for it.

It's also needlessly Japanese when the trope isn't exclusively Japanese (and probably didn't originate in Japan, considering the idea of a side story is Older Than Dirt), but it seems like every time I bring that up someone decides that since the Japanese have a name for it their name gets to be our name. :(

edited 11th Apr '11 11:30:31 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Gaiden Game has catchy alliteration, but yeah, apparently the core definition needs work. Sidestory Spinoff?

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

There are tropes that legitimately should have Japanese names (Tsundere, Zettai Ryouiki, Osananajimi) and some that shouldn't (Gaiden Game, Nakama).

I'm honestly not seeing the dividing line there, but that's a debate for another thread. (Also, Osana-whatsit seems to be a blank page.)

I think having "spinoff" makes the name a little too narrow, since the game does not have to be a spinoff. Take Valkyria Chronicles III. By the above definition, it is a Gaiden Game, since it takes place at the same time as Valkyria Chronicles but follows a different group of people, but it's not a spinoff to the other games in the series.

Sidestory Game is bland, but it captures what the trope is about fairly well. Perhaps brainstorming a bit can come up with something catchy and descriptive.

EDIT: Come to think of it, Spinoff Game might be distinct enough to be a subtrope. I'm not positive, but I'm going to let that stew a bit while this thread progresses.

edited 11th Apr '11 11:47:21 AM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Gaiden is a pre-existing phrase for this specific type of game. Yes, there are a couple of series that use it for games that aren't Gaiden games, but that doesn't mean it's not the widespread word for it.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

If it's widespread, I'm not finding evidence for it.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Wikipedia agrees on the definition we use. That's pretty mainstream, and I know the first time I heard it in this context was back in the 90's.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

That's weird, I specifically searched Wikipedia for it and couldn't find it.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

It was the first link on google and it shows up just fine on wikipedia for me. I'm not sure why you had so much trouble with it. The history goes back to 2004 so it's not new. Maybe you spelled it wrong? Or maybe Wikipedia just hates you.

edited 11th Apr '11 7:20:05 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Is this exclusively a Japanese thing?

In theory, no. There is nothing stopping Western video games from using this trope. In practice, the closest Western example I can find is Portal and that's not really a good example as it doesn't really meet all the criteria and it probably shouldn't be on the page.

The western examples aren't really "the other side of the story" as this trope requires. They're just another disconnected story set vaguely in the same universe.

edited 11th Apr '11 7:43:11 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

The first Google result for me is our page on the subject. The rest all seem to be Ninja Gaiden links with an occasional Resident Evil Gaiden thrown in for variety.

The other side of the story isn't required of the trope, either as written now or in the proposed new definition.

edited 11th Apr '11 8:10:54 PM by ccoa

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

It's point 2 from your first post. I don't think just counting under 4 or 5 count. It's often a feature, but something can be a direct sequel and still make sense without the previous game.

edited 11th Apr '11 8:36:14 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Yes, but a game can still be a Gaiden Game without 2. That's what I meant by "not required."

4 and 5 have already been brought up as not sufficient on their own.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Ah, ok. The Portal example still doesn't work because it doesn't fit 1 because it's not a side character. It doesn't fit 2 because it's not another side. And it's made canon by the main game so it doesn't fit 3.

Not sure why, but it's really not as common in Western Media.

edited 11th Apr '11 9:07:47 PM by shimaspawn

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Doesn't it have both 4 and 5, though? I don't know (haven't played it), but from what I've heard I think it does.

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

4 and 5 aren't good criteria though since you can have both 4 and 5 and be a direct sequel. They don't make a game a Gaiden game. They're just a common feature of games that are Gaiden games.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Portal is a non-sequel side story that takes place in the same universe as Half Life. So it definitely counts.

Rhymes with "Protracted."

That definition seems more functional than the bullet point one.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

But that definition then goes on to say "The major stipulation is it is not usually required to canonically fit into the "main" game or require having played it to enjoy."

Waiting on a TRS slot? Finishing off one of these cleaning efforts will usually open one up.

Yes, but that stipulation doesn't work on it's own. There's a difference between saying "all sheep have four legs" and "everything that has four legs is a sheep."

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick