I still think this is a bad title...: Ghost Ship

See, and these conflicting opinions are why I think we should either vote on which trope gets the title Ghost Ship or have it be a disambig page.

There's overlap with the Flying Dutchman trope for the Haunted Ship, I think, but not complete overlap. The Trope Namer, the actual Flying Dutchman is a borderline example (whether the crew is dead or not is not clear in the original myths), but not all examples on the Flying Dutchman page are Haunted Ships.

There's also the question of where non-ships should go. Most of them are trains, so if Soul Train is renamed they may be a problem. (There are also spaceships, but they can be put under ships.)

Soul Train should be renamed, but not for being misleading. It's the name of a work.

Let's do the crowner thing. It worked for Living Ship, it'll probably work for this too. Stick a disambiguation option on the crowner while you're at it.

Alright, change Derelict Ship to Ghost Ship and Ghost Ship to Haunted Ship. On second tought, it maes more sense that way. Haunted Ship gives clear supernatural feel while Ghost Ship is less ghostly ship. Also suggesting merging Haunted Ship with Flying Dutchman, since they are basicly the same with the twist that Flying Dutchamn are cursed to wander the seas where as Haunted Ship can have numerous reasons to be haunted.

And lastly, Change Soul Train to Soul Ferry. Soul Train is about ferrying souls to underword, yes?

• edit*

No, on closer looks it's just a train operated by Grim Reaper. Should we chagne it to any vessel that transports souls to underworld?

edited 5th Apr '11 11:42:06 AM by Mandemo

Soul Ferry is a good name for psychopomp.

I'd probably go with having a derelict trope and a haunted trope and making Ghost Ship a redirect to both, or some variation of this.

However there's still the problem that derelict ships often have ghosts as well.

Flying Dutchman does not necessarily involve anyone dead or vehicles. In fact, most of the examples are not ships nor involve ghosts or the damned. It's a separate trope with some overlap. Very much a no to a merge.

There are, however, some bad examples on Flying Dutchman that need to be moved to Haunted Ship. It may be that Flying Dutchman needs a rename, since the most recent pop cultural iteration of that trope involved dead/damned people. But the level of misuse seems fairly low.

edited 5th Apr '11 1:55:46 PM by ccoa

Bumbing, appearently Soul Train is going to be renamed Charon's Ferry

edited 7th Apr '11 10:36:12 AM by Mandemo

Sorry if this is just confusing things, but I notice that a bunch of examples on Soul Train will look even more out of place once that rename goes through. There are several "ghost trains" in there which look more at home in the tropes discussed in this thread.

That is I think that Flying Dutchman could use a supertrope for all spooky unworldly vehicles and those examples could go there.

We probably should take Ghostly Vehicle to YKTTW. I think we're also doing a few others, but it's on the previous page.

Flying Dutchman isn't about spooky vehicles, it's about someone or several someones being cursed to Walk the Earth. It doesn't have to involve a vehicle, a single Wandering Jew is enough.

Perhaps it should be swapped with its redirect if people are really having such a big problem with the trope.

Bumb, anybody else have any input?

It's "bump" with a "P", not "bumb".

Currently, I suggest waiting to see what happens with Soul Train before doing anything here.

Or, if you're Inspector Clouseau, "beaump."

Maybe we should do away with Ghost Ship completely and make it a disambiguation:

• For abandoned ships that continue to sail, see Derelict Ship.
• For vehicles containing ghosts or undead that are haunting a ship but are not acting as a crew, see Haunted Ship.
• For vehicles that are themselves supernatural or crewed by ghosts, see Ghostly Ship.
  • For crews that are supernaturally bound to a ship, see Flying Dutchman.

Derelict Ship can only apply to ships (or spaceships)—abandoned trains and cars don't tend to keep running. The others can be any large vehicle. Soul Train will become one of these but I don't know what.

edited 18th Apr '11 1:36:54 AM by arromdee

Sounds good to me. We jsut need to YKTTW those titles before making them, unless I am wrong.

edited 18th Apr '11 4:23:16 AM by Mandemo

Not necessarily. We need to YKTTW them if they any need more examples or help with the description, but if they're set on examples we can just create them if that's the consensus, although we should probably use the sandbox to tweak them.

Perhaps we should run a crowner to decide if we should let one have Ghost Ship or make it a disambig.

edited 18th Apr '11 5:59:52 AM by ccoa

I was just giving examples, not saying that those are the best titles. In fact, they probably aren't, since they all say "ship" in the name but only Abandoned Ship is likely to be exclusive to ships.

Bump

To be honest, when I read "Ghost Ship" my original thought was the ship from Legend of Zelda, a Haunted Ship with an undead crew. I don't think of Ghost Town with Ghost Ship. Derelict Ship does sound like a better title in my opinion. But the Disambig. suggestions seem like good ideas to me. I was going to suggest "Phantom Ship" for ships that are just plain not normal and clearly are literal "ghost ships" with undead infesting it. Like the one in Zelda, although I have no idea how many examples that could actually produce...

We could turn Ghost Ship into a disambiguation and point people to Phantom Ship and Derelict Ship.