Fridge Logic: Guns and attack stats in JRPGs

Something that's bugged me for a while:

In some Eastern RPGs, some characters and classes use guns or other ranged weapons to attack—i.e. Naoto in Persona 4, Barrett in Final Fantasy VII, the protagonist in Strange Journey, and the Gunner dressphere in Final Fantasy X-2. Typically, guns inflict physical damage, meaning their damage output is tied to the character's strength/attack stat.

...how does that work? It's as if the character's physical strength influences the gun's power (i.e. making bullets fire faster or bullets stronger). Perhaps in this case, the strength stat acts more like accuracy (specifically, how close the character hits the target's vital regions)?

edited 3rd Apr '11 3:37:55 PM by TsundeRay

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Adventurers! beat you to this Fridge Logic. I'm just not sure which strip it was...

Maybe it translates to them pulling the trigger REALLY HARD!

Yes I am well aware that how hard you pull the trigger has nothing whatsoever to do with how hard the bullet impacts, before anyone feels the need to point that out.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

Darn it Omega, I was going to make that joke!

Anyway, strength was a convenient attack stat, so why bother changing it? Yeah, it was basically programming laziness.

The thing about making witty signature lines is that it first needs to actually be witty.

Well, Natan would thrust the gun at the opponent when he fired. Of course Shadow Hearts might not be the best example of logic...

Maybe they always fire in bursts? The strength means they can deal with the knockback better and keep the gun on target?

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

Maybe they uuse their strength stat to grip the gun SO HARD that their MANLYNESS flows through the gun and into the bullet.

REAL MEN FIRE MAN BULLETS, PEOPLE.

A good writer puts in a lot of details in there story. But a great one gets a story from a single detail.

No. strength translates into being able to use more powerful guns and rounds with less recoil. A scrawny guy can't shoot two semi automatic pistols at once, while a strong enough guy can shoot two AK 74s at once.

Modified Ura-nage, Torture Rack

Chrono Trigger used the accuracy stat to determine damage for Lucca and Marle's weapons.

^^I'm pretty sure nobody can actually do that IRL.

Also, if strength equates to being better able to handle recoil, how does equipping a Girdle Of+3 Strength help you do that?

edited 3rd Apr '11 2:50:46 PM by OmegaKross

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

^^^ That still doesn't explain why someone with a strength of, oh, 10 does less damage than when he has 20 despite using the same weapon.

edited 3rd Apr '11 2:50:56 PM by Spirit

#IceBearForPresident

Real Reason: Designers are lazy.

In-universe reason: Strength, or "attack", refers to general combat skill; not just pure physical strength.

edited 3rd Apr '11 2:51:26 PM by Neo_Crimson

Sorry, I can't hear you from my FLYING METAL BOX!

Unless they are just throwing the fucking gun at people instead of shooting them.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

Obviously the girdle is magical...do normal girdles in real life grant sudden bursts of strength?

Some games circumvent this weird logic by making damage of ranged weapons be determined by accuracy.

The fact that guns never have to reload and never run out of bullets (only MP!) is a bigger fridge logic...

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Wait, what games have guns that take MP?

Well, gun skills where the description is just "fire a modified round to blah blah blah" costs MP to use despite the fact that your character is just loading a special bullet without any magic or anything.

It's game balance.

But to answer your question anyways....Order Of Ecclesia, your gun eats MP, but your MP recovers really fast. But nobody uses the gun when you can obliterate everything with "FIRE SPIN KICK!!!"

edited 3rd Apr '11 2:59:09 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

^^ I think Final Fantasy Tactics lets you use "gun skills". Or, at least, it's successors do.

Final Fantasy Tactics has guns deal flat damage, Chrono Trigger and Disgaea (among others, most likely) use accuracy, and most games based around using guns come up with something sane. As for the others... maybe they throw the bullets?

That's the case with most guns in RP Gs.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

FFXII averts this.

All guns do fixed damage regardless of stats(the game's first gun will do 50 damage no matter who is holding it).

Balthier always does slightly more damage with guns though(presumably he is just better at aiming for vital spots than the others).

If you wanted gun damage to be stat dependent it would have to be based on Dexterity or Accuracy.

Umbran Climax◊

Which it is in most western RP Gs.

Can't think of anything witty, so have this instead...

Strange Journey has guns with special kinds of shots that use up MP—typically they're elemental shots, status-inflicting shots, high-powered shots, etc. However, you always have access to a standard 0-MP shot.

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Greater strength kind of does translate into greater accuracy with guns, at least to an extent. I mean if you're stronger you can hold it more steadily while aiming or burst firing, and then more precise shots can do more damage.

But the damage should cap after a while...

You can only hold a gun so precise before you can not be anymore precise than you're already holding it...and then you squeeze too hard and break the gun with your mighty hands.

I think the best way to handle guns in an RPG is to make them be based on TEC or magic...and just make those guns magical instead.

This won't work with RP Gs that don't have any magical elements in them...but who the hell plays an RPG without any magic in it?

edited 3rd Apr '11 4:00:22 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

That's why I like Borderlands: The game is all about using guns, so any Fridge Logic there doesn't exist to begin with.

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