Man of Steel. Nolan Superman Reboot.

In this case it's less "Nothing is Scarier" and more "Nothing is There".

A typical pitfall when the trope is misused.

There was a broadcast earlier in the film where the news mentions Lois Lane knows who and where Superman is. We know Zod and his fleet have access to the Earth's airwaves. That also explains why they know who she is.

Here's a totally random question: were there any Looney Tunes references in this movie?

You know, the kind DC usually puts in their stuff - in the background you can see a store selling Looney Tunes merchandise, or a minor character has a Bugs Bunny toy, or a tv is showing a classic cartoon off to the side or something.

edited 26th Mar '15 12:17:33 AM by KnownUnknown

Bumping this thread because there are guys arguing about the philosophical implications and morality of the end of the fight in this movie in the Batman V Superman thread! Can we please just argue about the Man of Steel in the Man of Steel thread? And why are some people getting all philosophical about a work of fiction?

Hi this is T.V Tropes you must be new here.

I know. Par for the course. And if I had a dime for every thread I've seen go off-topic, I'd be as rich as Batman. Why do some people try to turn Superman into Space Jesus anyway? Though, it seems like any Heroic Protagonist can get called a "Christ allegory" just for being good. Which weirds me out, because as a Christian, I believe Jesus was God incarnate. And Superman is not God. Just an incredibly powerful fictional entity.

On the trope page it says Superman hates being an icon for religion plus shouldn't he be more aligned with Hebrew mythogly than Christian

People get so caught up in symbolism they forget it's no where near the most interesting part of your character http://www.springhole.net/writing/symbolism.htm

edited 20th Nov '15 10:09:55 AM by xbimpy

Yeah. Superman is more Alien Moses than anything else. Wait, there are fictional versions of those annoying English teachers that make every good guy an allegory for Jesus? It's an In-Universe thing? Do Clark's friends in the JLA tease him about it?

edited 20th Nov '15 10:08:09 AM by bookworm6390

So in a restaurant, I overheard two guys talking about DC and Marvel cinematic universe, right next to me. It interested me to the point where I couldn't resist myself anymore and joined the talk. Well, I didn't know a whole lot about the verse, and boy, did they sound so happy to enlighten me. XP

Among the things we discussed, there was the issue of Superman killing Zod. I asked them what was so big deal about it, and they said no-kill policy is a serious business for Superman, and apparently Superman never killed anyone, period.

Huh.

Whether if that was true or not, well, what was Superman supposed to do anyway? Hand him over to the police? Can they even hold him? Apparently when Batman defeated villains, he just sent them all to Arkham, but with Zod...I honestly can't think of anything other than killing him. :/

Break his limbs? Drop him in that one place in India that the World Engine was at?

But if the movie is going to treat it as though there was no other way, then fine, I'll take it. Do something interesting with that.

I've already said everything I need to about this in the other thread. It wasn't that Superman didn't have a choice, it was that the story put him in a position that had no choice. Hell, if they timed it right, he could have pushed Zod into the Phantom Zone with all the other Kryptonians.

He was holding onto an almost equally powered superhuman by his head, I don't think he could've done any of them. Sounds like a bit tough but understandable choice to me.

Hmm, that criticism is fair.

edited 20th Nov '15 10:49:49 AM by dRoy

If you can break a guy's neck, I'm sure you can break his limbs. Or at least try flying to India and seeing if that would've worked.

I don't think Superman faced an impossible challenge with a guy of equal strength. One of my favorite comics, Superman: Secret Origin, has him find a creative solution to subduing a villain as strong as him and made of Kryptonite. But I can buy that Sup here (or the writers) just didn't think of it in the heat of the moment. But it isn't black and white that he could or could not ever subdue Zod.

edited 20th Nov '15 1:10:54 PM by Tuckerscreator

It wouldn't have worked. Superman tried to fly away multiple times to no avail.

He even lead Zod to space and Zod took the fight back to Metropolis.

Thinking is not a free action.

It's really hard to invent an optimal solution in the heat of the moment. More often than not, people have to content themselves with acceptable solutions.

edited 20th Nov '15 1:17:20 PM by TobiasDrake

"I've already said everything I need to about this in the other thread. It wasn't that Superman didn't have a choice, it was that the story put him in a position that had no choice."

Exactly. Where was his autonomy? He very much hinged on a puppet character. His actions didn't feel like they came from him but the larger forces that drove Man of Steel. He was just being manipulated by them.

The question is what did this achieve? Why go this rout? What pay off is there? From creative writing 101 it makes little sense because I was always taught character is king. Without fleshing out a protagonist then there is no reason to believe his actions are his own. You're right. Who can invest in someone who bends to a plot's every demand?

edited 20th Nov '15 1:26:25 PM by xbimpy

Superman is a fictional character, so he has no free will!

It was also a literally heated moment.

That's where the framing becomes ambiguous. Was he actually trying to pull Zod to space, or did Zod yank him into space? Or did the writers just think "Wouldn't it be cool if they went into space next and we saw Bruce Wayne's satellite?" The intention of the characters isn't visible or easily inferred onscreen. We don't see Sup struggling to pull him into space or trying to escape Zod's grip because everything moves too fast.

edited 20th Nov '15 1:21:59 PM by Tuckerscreator

Breaking someone's neck is several magnitudes easier than breaking limbs. It requires far less force in torque.

Also, I'm pretty sure Superman was trying to fly or drag him out of the scene, but Zod was holding his ground damn strongly.

Regarding the former, I ask where's your proof since I've seen limbs break pretty easily (from my cousin and myself, during sports injuries). Sometimes all you have to do is stomp on the joint or yank it the wrong way. As the Neck Snap page points out, necks are weak, but not so weak as films make them out to be.

Regarding the former,

edited 20th Nov '15 1:32:39 PM by Tuckerscreator

You know what's weird. If you freeze the final fight frame by frame you're going to notice Zod keeps on looking back towards the ground as Superman slams him down face first. It's almost as if he has fear in his eyes, glancing everywhere but the superior fighter. His arms dangle widely. Reminds me of Attack on Titan when the chic knew she lost. Both look uncomfortable

edited 20th Nov '15 1:34:05 PM by xbimpy

Are we ignoring that Superman actually has killed in the comics before? He killed Darkseid, Mr. Mxy, Doomsday, and three Kryptonians in various stories. There are probably more that I can't think of. The thing is is that Superman has a strong aversion to killing but when it comes down to the wire he is willing to take someone out for the greater good.

Once again it's not the actuality of the incident. It's how it was handled in the context of Man of Steel.

edited 20th Nov '15 1:37:26 PM by xbimpy