General Star Wars Animated Series

@ Journeyman

Actually, Disney tends to be hands-off when it comes to TV shows as well. They're not really into meddling with their acquisitions as long as they get to make and sell merchandise.

Again, the point of the entire original trilogy is that the galaxy is being saved now that the "new hope" (Luke) has been found. He's the answer to the problem that is the empire. Compare that to Episode 3, where the whole point was that the good in the galaxy was being annihilated by the evil; and it's a pretty bleak movie.

Oh yeah it's terribly bleak with it's corny romance, over-the-top action, laughable lines and their hamfisted delivery by the actors.

Saw Breaking Ranks - I thought it was good enough, but the fact that nobody was informed of Ezra's appearance in the Empire was kind of odd - I mean surely Kallus would've noticed that Ezra was sneaking around, right? That aside, it was interesting how we got to meet another person against the Empire, and there actually were a few tense moments. You guys have made me wonder how long the Empire can look like a credible threat, though - they probably should be getting more victories.

Oh great, nice counter. Very riveting argument. If we're talking acting, all the movies have bad acting. The authorial intent of the movie is for it to be bleak. The Jedi are wiped out, children are killed onscreen, Anakin and Padme die (or in the case of Anakin, "die"), the galaxy falls to the Empire.

If you turn off the smartass comments in your head, you'll see that Episode 3 is far darker in tone than the other 5 movies. The PG-13 rating it got agrees.

Yeah, the part where Obi-Wan cried about "killing younglings." I can't even hear that line without laugh- err, crying. I mean, crying. Or the part where he screams, "You were the chosen one!" Or Anakin's line about how from his perspective, the jedi are evil.

Chilling stuff.

Y'know, going by "authorial intent," Jar Jar is a hilarious comic relief character. Just saying.

edited 1st Nov '14 6:17:39 AM by spashthebandragon

Yes plot-wise it's dark pretty dark. But everythingelse is just as, if not even more campy as the other 5 movies, as pointed it out.

Besides, if we're ignoring tone, this show is just as dark as episode 3. We've had offscreen genocide, a jedi-ghost-mummy-thing... and that's only in the first couple episodes. I'm betting all these rebels are gonna die by the end of the series (or at least in a tie-in novel or something) seeing as, y'know, there wasn't an extra pair of jedi running around in the original trilogy.

edited 1st Nov '14 7:12:23 AM by spashthebandragon

Yes, the obnoxious comic relief character that we see being somber in that movie. You're not ignoring tone, you're just saying "lol prequels suck"

There is no point in discussing this if that's your mindset.

Well, please forgive me for the terrible crime of making light of the Star Wars prequels.

There you go Strawmanning again.

I have to agree with Spash that this show Is dark but in a subtle manner, like with all the Strormtroopers falling to their deaths. But the focus is a light one since its a show mainly aimed at kids on a Disney Channel. Honestly I would have set it before or after the Empire period, but we gotta go with what we have.

Look, the point I'm trying to make is that, historically, Star Wars hasn't lent itself super well to dark stuff, so regardless of whether or not the setting "logically should" be dark based on previous events (and Order 66 was explicitly mentioned in the first episode, so it's not like they're ignoring the stuff from episode III anyways), I feel that the series needs to be lighthearted because otherwise it would be a bad series. Really, this whole "the show isn't dark enough" argument is getting a little old.

Yeah, see, the argument only came up again because someone was strawmanning it into us wanting grimdark all the time. You can't expect to misrepresent someone's position and then have them not say anything in response. If you don't like it, don't bring it up or contribute when it's brought up by someone else.

It's a question of Suspension of Disbelief. Until the Bothans got the Death Star Plans and Luke and crew blew up that abomination, the Rebels were losing. If our delightful band of Rebel misfits can continually escape Storm Troopers and win little victories all over the place, one has to wonder why the Rebels were ever losing. You can argue that quantity has a quality all its own, but that doesn't pass muster when an entire battle line of storm troopers can't even take out a pack of Wookies to keep the rebels from freeing them. We see maybe ONE wookie get hit in the first episode. That's it. You would think an evil Anthrocentric Empire would take a more "If I can't have them, nobody can" policy against Rebels freeing slaves.

I don't think anyone said anything about "grimdark all the time." But people are saying they want "darker than what the show currently is." I'm not exactly sure what people are expecting, though. Should a couple of characters get shot by the Empire and suffer violent on-screen injuries every few episodes? Should they get captured and tortured for being rebels? Should they constantly suffer crippling losses? Should they stand around their ship having long monologues about how depressed and hopeless they are?

No?

And, again, most of us have already noted the kinds of changes we'd like to see. We're not exactly being vague here.

edited 1st Nov '14 10:06:31 AM by CorrTerek

Well my Suspension of Disbelief would be broken by seeing competent Stormtroopers, simply because I regard the only sources to ever show them in such light as fanfiction of worst kind. As far as I'm concerned mooks in Star Wars are and will always be comic relief. The villains who should be threatening are the big ones. And in this regard Rebels is already doing better than any of the movies, since we already have a genocidal maniac and a creepy as hell Black Knight.

edited 1st Nov '14 10:08:20 AM by Werebazs

You must not be a fan of the competent and highly successful way they took out Echo Base in ESB, then. Or the efficient way they tracked the droids and slaughtered everyone who'd come into contact with them in ANH. When the troopers are allowed to be competent, they're very competent. When they're not allowed to be competent, there are mitigating factors — like, for instance, allowing Skywalker and the others to escape the Death Star.

They are not played for humor and uselessness the way the battle droids are, but when you watch Rebels the troopers might as well be battle droids for all the intelligence they display.

You...seriously think that Karas and the Inquisitor are more villainous (or, heck, more genocidal) than Palpatine, Tarkin, or Vader?

edited 1st Nov '14 10:12:52 AM by CorrTerek

All I'm going to say is

1) The crew of the Ghost is explicitly not a part of Bail Organa's Rebel Alliance that blew up the Death Star, or, at least, not yet. For now, they're really just a handful of skilled vigilantes/mercenaries who happen to have a sense of morality.

2) Half of their victories so far are "not dying."

edited 1st Nov '14 10:15:39 AM by TheAirman

Yep. Fair points. And they are explicitly based on a backwater world, so it's definitely possible that the opposition they face is not up to par.

Though now that they have both the ISB and the Inquisitor after them, it might be wise to switch bases. They've been seen in the area too many times.

edited 1st Nov '14 10:15:16 AM by CorrTerek

x5 I think that person was being a little hyperbolic, not actually claiming anyone wants that. Anyways, could you maybe repeat what these "darker changes" people want are, then? Is it just making the Stormtroopers more competent?

edited 1st Nov '14 10:18:23 AM by spashthebandragon

You've been arguing against us and you don't even know what our position is in the first place?

edited 1st Nov '14 10:24:24 AM by CorrTerek

Well, I thought the argument here was "the show should be darker" and "no it shouldn't." What I'm unclear on here is how it ought to be darker. Apparently, the people who want it darker don't want it "grimdark all the time," just a bit darker than it currently is, and, according to you, they've been very specific and not vague at all about what changes they want, so I guess I'm just an idiot for not realizing what those changes are, exactly. Could you maybe take pity on me and explain this argument that I am apparently too stupid to grasp?

We've been trying to explain since the beginning, but it tends to get drowned out by "You just want it to be grimdark!". We really do have specific criticisms earlier in the thread.

But yes, the Stormtroopers could definitely stand to be a bit more competent. Whether it's because the crew moves to a new location with better ones, or something else.

They could also stand to not treat trooper deaths so lightly or as a joke — at least, not so frequently. Haven't seen the Ezra episode yet, so I don't know if this gets addressed there or not, but these aren't battle droids — which are explicitly cheaply made, mass-produced products with the bare minimum of coding to do their jobs. These are people, and going for the same type of humor used in The Clone Wars just makes the heroes look like psychopaths.

As of now, the Ghost crew hasn't won any significant victories. As was pointed out, most of their successes fall under "not dying". That's good. It should probably stay that way for a bit, at least until such time (assuming it happens) that they connect to the wider Rebel Alliance network.

There are probably other criticisms we could all make, but that's probably going to fall under personal preferences.

edited 1st Nov '14 10:25:53 AM by CorrTerek