In some games, how come more defence=better at dodging things? And....

^ The ironic thing is, I thought it would have been easier to balance something that reduces a set amount of damage rather than rely on luck and dodging...

Well, you're also hellbent on justifying every game mechanic with an ironcast story reason so I don't think you're really the ideal go to person for balance there. :/

Well, realistically people don't have hit points. They either take damage or they don't, and if they take damage it either cripples them or it doesn't. The old D&D style of having few HP but rarely getting hit is much more realistic than the idea of armor reducing all damage taken by a certain amount.

edited 26th Mar '11 9:44:06 PM by Clarste

Does it strike anyone else as odd that most pen & paper games tend to be way more statistically complex than their machine-augmented counterparts, and the most “crunchy” of those are generally the ones based off a p&p system? Granted, there are a few Dwarf Fortress sort of games out there.

Eric,

That's just because the simpler computer RP Gs just hide all the internal numbers from you. In a computer game, I might have 37 strength, a weapon with 150 attack, and do about 3000 damage per hit *

. I have no idea how it arrived at that number, it just does. Bigger numbers are better for me, I assume. By contrast, for tabletop RP Gs the players need to be able to follow everything that's going and achieve the random values with standard dice.

edited 26th Mar '11 9:56:33 PM by Clarste

Even if a computer is a more effective number cruncher than a human, I think most computer RPG's keep it streamlined/straightforward/simplified to have a wider appeal and not scare away those who are bad at making character builds.

Having stuff like "yeah, this is your defence. the higher the better" is more user friendly than having a bunch of variables to it, and really much faster to set up your equipment too. Though some games do have big tables for calculating dozens of kinds of damage and defences, which can be a pain with picking equipment, especially if combined with limited inventory space. And I don't just mean "physical, magical and elemental" but with all the "slashing, thrusting, crushing, touch" and whatever other damage types soemone might come up with. Many games just go with the "physical, magical" basic damage and add in elemental weaknesses and resistances and call it a day.

Then again, HP really isn't realistic. And most of the time HP is closer to Heroic Resolve than actual bodily condition or Life-Force. Untill it drops to low or reaches 0 anyway and characters are wounded badly. Or in some cases just plain dead.

But Rule of Fun and Acceptable Breaks from Reality and all that jazz.

Oh, and speaking of the "miss or dodge" thing, Dragon Quest VIII is a major offender! Characters can dodge attack, complete with animation, or have so damn high defense (especially the Metal Slime) that they take no damage. The game still tells you "Miss! No damage!" though no dodge animation is shown and the attacks still have their hit effects, except the attacked target doesn't even flinch and no damage is displayed.

edited 26th Mar '11 10:09:29 PM by KuroFox

Sonic hates SOPA

It's not like higher defense isn't better in tabletop games either (except D&D 2nd edition, lol). It's just that calculating damage reduction tends to make things much more complicated when the player has to do it themselves. The miss system is more streamlined.

Basically, if you were playing a computer game engine by hand it would most like be ridiculously more complicated than any existing tabletop. It only seems simpler because it all happens in the background.

I don't mean just intuitiveness, I mean just plain detail. One example off the top of my head is burst fire and shotguns in the first two Fallouts, instead of just being one big attack, each bullet in a burst and each pellet in a shotgun blast has its accuracy and damage rolled individually, which would just be needless tedium on the tabletop. One thing I've never seen in a CRPG that might work a lot better than on paper since most of its drawbacks are the huge number of reference tables and die rolls, for instance, is grappling.

Eric,

I think Gygax was just trying to be realistic, honestly. If the attack penetrates the armor then its like the armor wasn't even there, or something like that.

It is a pretty bad system though and should never have been used in a computer game, of all things. Why the heck its still popular is a question for the ages.

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So, Armor Class is an Undead Horse Trope?

edited 27th Mar '11 11:04:26 PM by KuroFox

Sonic hates SOPA

It's slowly dying off...

On the other hand, even a game as recent as The Dark Spire uses it. I know they were trying to be retro, but I think they overdid it at parts.

edited 27th Mar '11 11:14:13 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

So, like Runescape before the new hit point system?

INT is knowing a tomato is a fruit. WIS is knowing it doesn't belong in a fruit salad. CHA is convincing people that it does.