Expand?: Evil Mask

Yes, you may think Evil Mask is Exactly What It Says on the Tin, but it's not! Technically, it doesn't even have to be evil (although in fiction, mind control against someone's will is generally considered to be such).

I didn't see any trope that fit what Evil Mask seems to be about. Is that tropable? Is it worth expanding Evil Mask to be Exactly What It Says on the Tin? Or would we have to create another trope just for mind-controlling masks?

Evil Mask is a mask that takes over people.

What we need is a trope for evil-looking masks.

edited 22nd Mar '11 8:28:41 PM by Scardoll

Or masks that are sentient and evil. Or those that have specifically evil powers and abilities.

Hmm, that might be a problem actually: what "should" Evil Mask mean?

Yeah, why the hell would they call Mind Controlling Mask Evil Mask?

I'm the one who made the page, so I guess I'd better explain my reasoning. I see this trope as being about masks that have an evil influence on the wearer. So, these masks may be a Mind-Control Device, or be possessed by a demonic entity, or have a curse on them or whatever, but the point is that wearing one causes you to turn evil.

I guess technically there could be mind-controly masks that are used for good rather than evil, but there aren't any that I've come across...

This was one of the first trope pages I ever made, and looking back at it now, it could probably use a better description to make things clearer, and a rename might be appropriate, too.

Our most general "evil mask" trope appears to be Malevolent Masked Men. It lists a variety of evil masks and has subtropes for specific styles such as White Mask of Doom.

I have wondered if Malevolent Masked Men started life as something more specific and slowly adopted the role of evil mask supertrope/index. Perhaps Malevolent Masked Men should be called Evil Mask, or have it as a redirect?

edited 23rd Mar '11 6:59:36 AM by Camacan

Malevolent Masked Man deals with people who are masked in general while Evil Mask deals with a mask that controls the wearer. From the video game Shining Force, both Darksol and Kane are Malevolent Masked Men but only Kane is wearing the Evil Mask because it's specifically stated to be controlling him.

Well Mind Control Masks don't have to be evil (most are though) this really needs a clearer name.

It also includes a lot of material about evil masks — if there is one home for evil masks, it's Malevolent Masked Men. My point is that we have the option of leaving "evil mask" at Malevolent Masked Men: that's it's current home. Perhaps that would better be handled in a new thread.

I too feel Evil Mask is a non-indicative name for the trope currently using it, being far too general. Support a rename.

edited 23rd Mar '11 6:07:03 PM by Camacan

That's about the person wearing the mask being evil. Not the mask itself being evil as is the case with Evil Mask. That page has nothing to do with any of the proposed meanings for Evil Mask.

In practice it appears to have a second role in addition to that one. It's also assumed the role of the evil mask supertrope. It's got the bulk of our general evil mask discussion. It also acts as a kind of index for the various types of evil mask. I'm not saying this is ideal — just that it seems to be how it is currently organised. It's possibly not so surprising since evil people wearing masks and masks which acts a symbols for evil go together.

Evil Mask is not about all evil masks — it's about a specific attribute that some masks have. It's quite specialized and deserves a descriptive title. To illustrate: a White Mask of Doom is a type of evil mask, but it would make no sense to call it a subtrope of Evil Mask as the name is currently used.

edited 23rd Mar '11 6:15:37 PM by Camacan

A Malevolent Masked Man does not have to be wearing an Evil Mask or a White Mask of Doom. An Evil Mask is not always a White Mask of Doom, nor is it always worn by a Malevolent Masked Man. And a White Mask of Doom is not always an Evil Mask, nor is it always worn by a Malevolent Masked Man. While I agree that the title should be changed to avoid ambiguity (not all mind-controlling masks are evil), I disagree that Malevolent Masked Men is a supertrope, both because it appears to be talking about groups of masked people and also because it talks about masked bad guys or dark anti-heroes. Since that is talking about a specific set of masked people and since Evil Mask (title notwithstanding) sometimes falls outside that set, it is a separate trope.

edited 23rd Mar '11 7:10:32 PM by MC42

Evil Mask = Mask That Is Evil

Yup, right in one. It's the "mask" variant of Clothes Make the Maniac. Works for me.

But "Mask that is evil" is not the trope. It's specifically a mask that mind controls its wearer. But nothing in the description prevents it from being, say, an angelic mask wrought by God with the purest blessed ivory, to be worn by someone who is then possessed by the spirit of the Lord to smite wickedness.

Meh, sounds close enough to me. Tropes Are Flexible, blah blah.

Okay, I changed the trope description to fit my original intentions better. Sorry if that wasn't appropriate, but as the OP for this trope I felt that its main problem was that it needed a better description.

So, it's no longer just a Mind-Control Device, it's specifically a mask that turns someone evil. That was what it was supposed to be in the beginning, as the examples indicate, but I didn't word it well enough.

However, if you still disagree with either the name or the contents, feel free to make any further alterations. I just thought I should make myself clearer before other people started changing the definition.

edited 24th Mar '11 3:59:44 AM by PapercutChainsaw

I was reminded of this thread by a recently closed IP topic.

What does everyone think of the name against the new description? Name's still arguably a little more general than the definition, but at least it has a much firmer connection now.

My question above still stands. If we're satisfied with the "new" description, this thread should be closed.

Has the new description been put up? Have we done wik checks? What is the new description?

Yes. Not yet, though I expect it'll be okay, since the description's been expanded. A mask that exerts evil influence upon its wearer (as opposed to the old definition, any mask that acts as a Mind-Control Device on its wearer).

I've checked the wicks. There was one bad wick where the mask looked evil but apparently nothing more. The remaining wicks fit the new description. The majority of them are narrower than the description — evil mind controlling masks. There are only fifteen wicks in total.

I agree that the fit between the name and the description is much improved.

I think we can lock up now — any objections?

edited 3rd Dec '11 7:44:07 PM by Camacan

No objections raised; morgue time.