Tips for improving a new article page.: Turing Test

Last night I took a crack at a new article, "Turing Test". It's my first attempt at adding content to the wiki, but I want to make sure it's a worthwhile contribution. I understand the concept of the test well enough and was able to cite it's use in a couple works, along with a well-known real life example, but I'm worried/wondering if the article is up to par. I feel I may have written it to overlap a bit with tropes like "Become a Real Boy" or "Pinocchio Syndrome", though I tried to focus on the test itself and it's application within fictional works. I also wonder if I'm really on the mark since I'm only giving a basic understanding of the test, and focusing more on the way it tends to appear in fiction. Any critique would be appreciated.

edited 21st Mar '11 1:55:26 PM by TheSchlub

It's a little bit unfocused right now, to me. Is it about intelligence or is it about the idea of determining the "humanity" of an AI? Because calling capchas a Real Life example makes it feel like it's about abilities, but the description tends to focus on the idea of civil rights.

It should be about telling the difference between a human and an AI...

true, perhaps it's a bit wider in scope than necessary. At the same time, this isnt That Other Wiki, and I wanted to try and relate how the turing test appears as a trope in science fiction media, as opposed to just the test by itself. I guess one needs the other to work.

I do agree that the article is more about human rights for machines than the test itself at present (a nights sleep does wonders for perspective).

I'd suggest that you run it through YKTTW. That will gather input from more people and help clarify the definition and get more examples. That's why it's strongly (very strongly!) suggested for new tropes (as opposed to new works pages).

This page still isn't thriving. It's only got six wiks.

I'm bumping this and I ask: isn't this trope People Sit On Chairs? So, the Turing Test appears in a work. That's not a trope. Replace the Turing Test with a swiss knife and it's the same trope, but about swiss knives. Or better, a chair. Let's list every time a chair appears in any work. Bonus points if people sit on it.

If nobody gives me a good reason I'll send this trope to the Cut List.

Determining intelligence has way more narrative significance than sitting down.

However the trope, as it is right now, is not a trope. It's just a list of 6 mere examples where the Turing Test appears or is mentioned. The original writer abandoned it the very day he created it. People suggested him to go through YKTTW, so the logical thing to do if you want to keep the trope is going there and try to launch it. Right now it's just Cut List material.

edited 20th Nov '11 10:43:15 AM by DrMcNinja

"Determining whether an AI can pass for (or be called) human" would be more accurate.

The description is well-written, and actually focuses on narrative significance. Cutting the trope because you don't like the example list would be cutting off the wiki's nose to spite its face.

It's not just that "I don't like the examples". It's just that going by your logic I could create a trope for swiss knives just mentioning every trope where they could appear and how. And that's not a trope. The fact that there are just 6 examples doesn't hurt either, but that's not the point.

How exactly is a philosophical theme and concept for discussion comparable to kitchenware?

Easy: when it's not a literary device. From the Home Page: "Tropes are devices and conventions that a writer can reasonably rely on as being present in the audience members' minds and expectations".

And I'll say it again: the definition as it stands right now is just a list of tropes where the test could appear. If you say you're going to change the definition so it becomes a literary device then OK, but do it. Because I'll have to remind you that you also started the trope repair shop for The Ditz and then you abandoned it. You went to the YKTTW that I started for it but you didn't even cared to help with it, you just started to critisize.

Dude, calm down. What are you rambling on about me for? I'm here to talk about the page Turing Test, which, for the record, is not "just a list of tropes where the test could appear". The page resembles nothing of the sort.

edited 20th Nov '11 1:27:57 PM by SeanMurrayI

Ok, sorry I mentioned that here, but it pissed me off and when I saw it was you I got mad.

Now, about this trope, there is a definition of what the Turing Test is, and then a list of how it can appear in works (sorry for this, I made an error and wrote tropes instead of works). But I repeat my example: I can make a page about how swiss knives can appear in works, and it also wouldn't be a trope. I can say "a swiss knife is yadda yadda and it can appear in Never Bring a Knife to a Fist Fight, or it could be used for lock picking (I don't remember right know the trope about using things to pick locks)."

See my point now?

edited 20th Nov '11 1:34:21 PM by DrMcNinja

It's already written to explain something that can be (and is) used as a literary device.

A philosophical concept invoked in fiction and media is perfectly acceptable for a trope page.

edited 20th Nov '11 1:32:53 PM by SeanMurrayI

Recheck my message, I had to edit it in response to the edit of your previous message.

The thing you're leaving out, however, is that a Turing Test (especially the performance of one such test, which most of the examples suggest) carries meaning while the mere appearance of "swiss knives" doesn't mean anything at all.

If the examples were nothing more than a list of the words "Turing Test" being mentioned in a work, maybe you'd have a point. But when the majority of the examples on the page involve actually testing artificial intelligences, then that should be perfectly fine. It's certainly all I would expect such a trope's examples to be covering.

edited 20th Nov '11 1:51:33 PM by SeanMurrayI

But does it carry enough meaning? Going that way any procedure to check anything could get it's own trope page. I'm sorry I can't name you one right now, but I'm sure there are other tests and procedures with names, and nobody thought it was important to make a page about them. Probably because the Turing Test is more "sci-fi" than other tests it got lucky, but nothing else.

edited 20th Nov '11 1:56:07 PM by DrMcNinja

Of course it carries enough meaning. The Turing Test serves a specific purpose, and its appearance in a work of fiction helps address and call attention to larger themes in the work about the differences (or similarities) between human and artificial intelligences.

It's no less significant than how Platonic Cave helps address and call attention to larger themes on the perception of reality in works.

edited 20th Nov '11 2:05:25 PM by SeanMurrayI

I keep thinking it's just it being "sci-fi" that gives it a trope page and it doesn't to Goldberg's depression test, or any other named test you can find out there. Nontheless if people are so adamant in keeping it I won't press the issue further. Since there is nothing else to discuss here I'll ask a moderator to close this thread.

So what is trope? Just anytime a the turing test is used in fiction?