General Writer's Block thread

I'm both curious and slightly concerned about what kinds of effects my recent Grand Blue binges are going to have on my writing.

What effects would that anime have on your writing? I'm curious.

I can relate to the idea of getting so into a particular franchise that it colors your imagination to a degree. Happens to me every so often. (Sometimes after watching anime I'll imagine scenes as anime fights for instance)

Well, for starters...

Thoughts on my issue?

As a reality-altering time travel story it's supposed to be somewhat wonky, but how can i *imply* anything? And make sure the readers understands the resets?

Also, what might people think i'm trying to say about AI? ^note (aside from the accidental purgatory metaphor, i wasn't really going for anything. I got the idea from The Terminator)

I think the question of "how can i imply anything about anything" is too large and unwieldy for us to answer in the General Writer's Block Thread.

1. Consider making a new thread, and
2. Try being more specific with your questions.

Edited by AwSamWeston on Feb 8th 2024 at 4:59:40 AM

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding something, but it seems like the obvious answer is to have things that readers should understand and notice, but not necessarily the characters. With how you've explained it, I don't really see how any of the characters are supposed to fight back or even interface with this constant resetting of time and retroactive alterations if they also have no idea anything was ever different. This is one situation where an omniscient viewpoint might be of benefit.

I could just be comparing this to Alan Wake's American Nightmare, where the characters get stuck in a time loop and experience the same night three times, but they all remember each previous version and prepare and fight back, which in turn leads to the villain fighting back even harder in an arms race.

I have a story where only one character is aware of the loop, with everyone else being oblivious (they notice that weird things are happening, but can't comprehend why or how). The protagonist is fully aware the entire time, which adds an element of isolation.

But yeah, while I don't think that the "nobody knows" concept is unworkable, it also seems to lack stakes because if nobody in the story realizes they're trapped, does anyone actually suffer?

It's possible to work through Dramatic Irony if the reader understands stakes that the characters don't. For example, because I just read Nigel Kneale yesterday:

I agree with this.

Oh, sure, Dramatic Irony aplenty. But what would the actual conflict be, if the characters aren't aware of the reset? I've seen similar things done well in works like Everyman HYBRID, but that was a Slenderman series that just incorporated alternate timelines and loops into the main plot. It wasn't the plot.

Nukeli didn't really say, but evidently there's something threatening enough to justify reckless meddling with the timeline.

I suppose different characters in universe could speculate separately in such a way that only the reader could put it together - no one knows where the threat came from, someone notes that it has semi-unique markings of resources that were destroyed as an alternative to Möbius obtaining them but since it never had access someone must have managed to recreate them, someone else who was involved in inventing the time machine remembers that they and Möbius only became willing to cooperate with each other due to sharing a common danger, Möbius repeatedly considers using a time travel reset in a way that implies specific points-of-divergence but thus far decides against it every time, etc, no one character ever has all the relevant clues. For maximum tragedy, maybe someone else is just about to put it together when Möbius decides to hit the reset button. Or maybe the story keeps contradicting previous details in increasingly blatant ways, corresponding to consequences associated with each divergence point, but no one in-universe has Ripple-Effect-Proof Memory so only the reader notices anything has changed.

I'm trying to the tent-pole method of outline, and I gotta say, it is helping me get out of my rut I'm in with the planning.

Now, I just need to be able to sit down and write consistently.

What's the tent-pole method?

I'm not 100% familiar with it, but it involves detailing a few key plot points in your story, then working from there.

is it related to story structures by any chance?

I suppose it could be. It's essentially an outline, after all.

Edited by InvisibleWater on Feb 18th 2024 at 9:18:30 AM

If I'm understanding ~Nukeli 's metaphysics for "Cut the Loop" correctly, then the product of whatever time travel targeted the earliest destination so far will be present in all the timelines. So perhaps it would be helpful if Möbius already attempted to reach far enough back to eliminate itself, by delivering a document clearly explaining what's going on and how to stop it — but the message went astray and didn't actually make it to someone who would act on it, instead getting locked away in a safe-deposit box or something while Möbius gets turned on and goes through all the trouble that makes up the plot. Then the underlying history can be implied by having characters happen to uncover the message and react vaguely, with the final loop presenting it to the reader.

I've been brainstorming ideas on how to put a unique spin on the Wide-Open Sandbox.

• Each area would be designed a unique manner from each other so each part of the map would be distinct in terms of both visuals and gameplay design. This is if the open-zone approach isn't used.

• Instead of having a bunch of collectables for the sake of filling out an open world, the world would work like a Collect-a-Thon Platformer where there is one standard Plot Coupon awarded for exploration and quests (alongside awards like new gear). Said collectable would open up dungeons and certain parts of the world making engaging in the side content necessary to progress.

• Instead of a skill tree, you would find Tomes that, when filled up, give you a choice between 2-3 perks. These perks are fixed to each specific tome, meaning you must pick wisely. Perks would also have a much bigger individual impact on gameplay. Some very rare tomes let you pick any perk.

Some interesting ideas!

Are you looking for critique and comment on them, or just to express your current thoughts?

Thoughts and critiques, but also to share these ideas.

Fair enough!

Okay, some thoughts and critiques on my part:

This could be done, I daresay—but beware of scale!

On the scale of a standard AAA open-world game—even if not to AAA visual standards—that may amount to an awful lot of content—of visual design, of gameplay design, and of asset creation.

I won't call it impossible, just issue a warning that it's potentially significantly more work, calling for significantly more resources, than building on the same scale with a single overall design.

(What I might suggest instead on the gameplay side is to design a single set of core mechanics that are sufficiently flexible that they can be applied in a variety of ways.

Think of, say, a dash that can be used to fight enemies in one place, to ping between nodes as a race in another place, and to deal with tricky traversal in a third.)

Of course, if you're designing a much smaller open-world, then it might be easier to do!

I mean... then it's not really side-content, is it? If it's necessary to progress, then it's de facto part of the main progression.

Now, if there are more plot coupons than places to unlock, then the player has some choice in which coupon-locations to explore—but exploring the minimum number of locations is part of the main game.

This then effectively reduces the amount of actual side-content available to the player, as well as extends the main line of progression, I would argue.

Hmm... I'm reminded of the original Deus Ex's nano-augmentations.

There, the player found canisters that offered a pair of upgrades, of which they could choose one. Choosing an upgrade then locked them out of the other offered by that canister—even should another canister like it be found.

I suppose that my question is: Why make the player find multiple? What does it add to have to find more than one? Why not just reduce the amount of explorable content and have each tome be complete on discovery?

Now, you might answer that it allows the amount of explorable content to be increased—but in counter, I'd argue that it waters down the reward for exploration.

That said, I do like the overall idea—as I said, Deus Ex did it (albeit without requiring multiple per upgrade), and I think that it worked well there.

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Feb 20th 2024 at 10:03:50 PM

The open world would be one that would be more densely packed than other Open Worlds (and the worlds designs would differ in that some have wide open flying space, some are primarily verticle, etc). I personally consider skipping side content in open world games in favor of the main quest as kinda missing the point (and indeed it feels wrong to do a main quest in an open world game). Having this system makes it so you cannot brute force the main quest. The Tomes would need to be filled with a seperate EXP resource to prevent stacking perks in a short time due to the nature of the game. And finally, giving you a choice was mostly an idea I got from Cult of the Lamb, where you're given a choice of two perks, and you miss out on the perk you missed. I want to see how it would translate to a larger scale world since it would add replay value. You can still get a perk you missed through a very rare tome that lets you pick any perk.

All of these would fit in the setting, an ultra-futuristic city in a world where imagination is a literal form of magic.

Edited by TheLivingDrawing on Feb 20th 2024 at 9:11:34 AM

Can I take it that it's a much smaller open-world, then?

(If not, then the scale of the work to be done goes up, not down, I fear.)

But if so, then fair enough! It's still a lot of work, I imagine, but perhaps potentially doable—especially if you have a team to work on it.

And I will say, speaking to my own personal tastes, I do prefer open worlds to be smaller but denser.

Whatever else might be said about Ultima IX, for example, I hold that it remains one of the best implementations that I've yet seen of an open world. And it's for that reason: the game doesn't have vast empty spaces; rather, it has a smaller world—small enough to explore thoroughly, large enough to invite exploration—that's packed with all sorts of things to stumble upon.

Well, let me ask then: If flight is available, how do you prevent it from trivialising the vertical elements?

Is it more gliding, with which the player can only move downwards, or something like that...?

Again, if it's required, then it's not really side-content—it's just a longer main quest.

As to skipping side-content... is that not a decision to leave with the player...?

It may not be your own playstyle, but others will (presumably) be playing the game, too, and may have different desires.

I mean, then why have one at all? Why not make a sandbox game instead?

Hmm... So, I gather that it's fairly quick and easy to get to the Tomes, then?

Could you not just have them scattered more far-and-wide, perhaps hidden behind various challenges, requiring the player to travel and explore further to gain them?

I haven't played Cult of the Lamb, but it sounds like the system is pretty comparable to what I described from Deus Ex. Fair enough!

Yup, it should work I daresay. ^_^

The open world design idea might not be viable, and is more an idea for making it unique. And by flight I had a vehicle in mind since the area is inspired by the 1950s idea of what the far future would look like. The idea of the side content being mandatory for completion of the game would work in the Collect-A-Thon sense, where you are given considerable freedom in how you get the plot coupons to progress. What I meant by it feeling dirty to do the main quest is kind of a personal inclination I have in games towards completing the available side content that opens up before I proceed. I still want to have a main quest, it's just that I have a preference for doing side content before the main quest. And tomes would be rarer rewards for doing longer or more intricate sidequests/side dungeons. The nature of the game would allow finding several early on if you know where to look, hence the requirement to fill them with EXP before they can be used. I also haven't played Deus Ex and know nothing about it.

Fair enough!

Ah, fair enough! It sounds cool! ^_^

I would worry about such a vehicle trivialising the more-vertical elements—it might be worth looking for a way to limit the player's access to it.

I do follow—I just maintain that it ceases then to be side-content. It's just one really big, free-form main-quest.

That's very fair!

I suppose that I'm just warning against making your personal playstyle a requirement for all players.

[edit]
But thinking about it, I don't think that you're really doing that here.

I suspect that players who know about its structure will simply approach it as a game without side-content.

(Those looking for side-content might be disappointed, however.)
[/edit]

I see.

In that case, I'd suggest looking for ways to prevent their access, rather than giving the player busy-work.

Maybe require keys that are located far from their doors; or have doors that require plot-progression; or some such thing.

Or... Just let players who have the knowledge gain those perks. Sometimes it's okay to allow player-knowledge to be a boon.

That's fair! I was rather hoping that my description of the related mechanic sufficed! ^^;

Edited by ArsThaumaturgis on Feb 20th 2024 at 6:41:50 PM