Full Metal Alchemist General

@Davidthemouse

Actually, Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood wasn't any happier either seeing as how Hoenheim dies. To me, the creator of FMA 2003 Seiji Mizushima has too much of a habit of making the protagonist annoying asexual and flat. His work on Shaman King, FMA, barely any connection is drawn with the people he is cannonly shown to have a deep bond with.

At first I was upset that FMA: Brotherhood was too peachy a patched up ending but then I thought how it'd be sucky if it didn't have a happy ending seeing as how an F U the first anime ending was. I mean it'd been better had there been shown happiness with the protagonist and the girl but that's never shown in any anime that he makes. My only real beef with Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood is how it does the whole Evangelion Third Impact event. FMA never came across as the type of show that needed to pull off that plot. I liked the whole photos showing the ending for everyone but I hate to death the third impact thing.

You mean episode 60? I have to admit it would seem out of place but I still thaught it was well excuted.

I mean Father been planning big for a hundreds and thousand of year.It would be rather anti clamatic if it wasn't as big as what you address as the third impact.

@David The Mouse

The idea of that country wide alchemic transmutation still feels so weird. The scientific aspect which I admired kinda flew out the window. I mean if you're going to do the whole assimilation plot it feels better if it sticks like the one in End Of Evangelion did. Also it wasn't for no hundred of thousands of years. A hundred man.

edited 14th Jun '12 12:54:40 PM by Couchpotato20

I meant to say hundred or thousand of years.

But yeah, on a FMA forum a person said that FMA started to get a bit crazy around the hundreds.

No winner. Both FMA series are just as good as each other. No more, no less.

Brotherhood. I dunno, i just like the story better, and best of all, it doesn't leave you depressed.

Brotherhood always has a direction. It also makes sure the emotional beats hit hard. The music is a huge improvement. The characters are more at the forefront of the story.

I've tried comparing the page on the Anime Characters to the Brotherhood/Manga characters pages, and don't really feel that they compare at all. Seriously, just having that many characters is impressive, but pulling them off well without dragging on the plot or losing focus takes a level of skill I've yet to see in many anime at all.

And the ending is good. It's exactly what you'd expect to happen based on the characters.

There are reasons to like the first anime, or even prefer it, if you thought the tone was better or enjoyed the ending or the direction the plot took or even the idea of parallel worlds it used decently. But thinking back I can't remember any moments I thought were particularly noteworthy.

It's going to be an incredibly subjective thing, as is my nature, but I rated the first anime barely more than all the other standard shounen shows I've watched. Brotherhood is in my top ten anime, and I feel it only just misses being perfect.

I'll go with that. But hey, the first anime has it's moments!

edited 15th Jun '12 3:13:44 AM by eternalNoob

Oh, no doubt. I will fully endorse both series as excellent anime, and they're both worth a watch. However, that being said, while I think both deserve a view (with 2003 coming before Brotherhood for comparison purposes), I have to give my vote to the overall better anime to Brotherhood. I'd explain why, but it'd be disjointed and fanboyily ranty.

I'd love to hear this rant just cause it sounds like it be interesting.

Brotherhood is the superior to me. Not just for fact that the original had weaker elements addressed already, a lame Big Bad, forcing Rose as love interest, and so forth like that. It was far more angsty to ridiculous degree, which goes against end message of real material of overcoming things. Plus I felt character focus and usage was far superior in Brotherhood. There was also more balance between major & minor characters, plus more fun to follow.

I do feel Brotherhood had a few out of place comedy scenes, but I'm willing to let it go since it's narrative far better.

Okay, Rose was not a love interest in the first anime. Yes, she said she loved Ed, but at the time she was pretty much just doing whatever Dante told her to do, and Dante wanted Rose and Ed to hook up. That way, when Dante stole Rose's body, the groundwork would be in place for her to be "loved by the son of Hohenheim".

Also, how was the series angsty "to a ridiculous degree"? Given the story's subject matter, the angst levels seemed quite appropriate.

edited 16th Jun '12 6:42:53 PM by RavenWilder

Brotherhood has one advantage over the first series that makes the former the better series. The epic team up between Mr. Curtis and Armstrong against Sloth.

edited 18th Jun '12 9:08:13 PM by qtjinla15

brothood sloth pwns 2k3 sloth.

thought he was slow cuz he was hhuge & lazy?

DEAD WRONG!

plus olivier was such a Hot Amazon, [she & izumi shoulda had more interaction.]

though lust had more development in 2k3

"goodbye, scar"

my only complaint [aside from ww1 being the other side of the gate & thus Conqueror Of Shamballa] was sheska vanishing, she didn't even appear in the sequel one-shot.

NOW I KNOW! I like Brotherhood better, cause it can get just as dark as the first anime, but at the same time, there is always a ray of hope, no matter how much odds are against them. The first anime was a string of downers, punches to the gut, and sadness, with something bittersweet at the end. Not that that's not bad, in fact, some people might prefer that, but i like the Brotherhood anime better.

Man I wished I'd jumped into this conversation months ago.

Oh well, here goes....

In terms of objective quaility AND my personal preference Brotherhood loses to the 2003 version for two small but very significant reasons. Keep in mind I've only seen the dubs so I'm only talking about those.

1. The writing. Okay so you know how the first anime did this thing, where they were kind of lose with the script when it came to translating it to English? It was just enough so that the point of a scene never changed but the wording felt a lot smoother and more predisposed to English speaking actors. Brotherhood felt really hammy at times and it wasn't because of the performances or the way the lines were read, it just like the script was written in places by someone who's first language wasn't English, and certain lines of dialouge felt kinda stilted and a little forced.

2. The constant, CONSTANT Mood Dissonance! I know Brotherhood and the manga were in general lighter in tone than the 2003 anime. But the first anime wasn't just dark fr darkness's sake, it had just as many funny/fun moments as it did Tear Jerkers, even in it's second half. I personally love shows and movies that can strike that balance between comedy and drama so that neither one feels forced.

Brotherhood always seems to be INTENTIONALY pulling me out of any drama with forced, out of place comedy. And it's ALWAYS forced. A perfect is example is the scene where Ed, Al, Mei and Ling meet Father for the first time. Ed and Ling have both almost died by Envy's hands mere moments ago, the main character meet the major antagonist for the first time in the series, AND Ling gives his body up to Greed. Based on what I described, the mood for this scene should be genuinely tense, dark, and offputting. It gets the "offputing" part down well enough I guess (lord knows the way Father acted toward Ed and Al put *me* off), but all of the tension is killed with bits like Gluttony chasing Mei and Greed pinning down Ed in the ensuing fight. Those dont *sound* weird, but watch the scene and it's obvious those two moments are there to make us laugh. I know that sounds like a nitpick but I feel this way throughout the entire show, until maybe the last couple of episodes! I'm *fine* with comedy relief if it's well-handeled, but why does the show insist on trying to make us giggle when we should be fearing for the characters lives?

Okay, now that those two are taken care of, I think both shows do a great job of fleshing out the characters they're given. I for one always found Winry a little annoying (not enough to make me hate her but I felt she a little overused in both series). Even then I understand why Winry was sidelined more in the first anime; it's a different story and Winry just happens to have less bearing on that story.

For the other characters:

• I like 2003!Bradely better. He just seems like a really cool affable guy, so the twist of him being Pride came as a genuine shock. He may be a worse fighter, but he left more of an impression on me then Brotherhood!Bradely did
• For the other homunculi in general, I prefer 2003. 2003!Wrath is kind of annoying but only sometimes. 2003!Sloth I found to be boring until her last appearence, but it's better than the Brotherhood/Manga sloth, who I just find completely uninteresting.
• I like 2003!Hughes better.
• I like Brotherhood!Yoki better. They took a one note Jerk Ass, and made him a lovable Butt-Monkey.
• Brotherhood gives us Ling, Greed II and more Barry the Chopper, all three of which are pluses in my book.
• 2003 gives us more Rose, Archer, Scheska, Marta and Armstrong, which are all also pluses in my book.
• Brotherhood Hohenheim left more of an impression on me, but I'm gonna be shallow here and say 2003 Hohenheim gains points solely because of his voice.
• Is it me or does Vic Mingogna give a much more subtle and less "shouty" perfomance as Ed in the 2003 version?
• Aaron Dismuke beats Maxey Whitehead as Al any day! No offense I love Maxey Whitehead, but with her I can always tell it's a womans voice.
• I for one like that Tucker got more screentime in the 2003 version. He isn't really sympathetic unless you wanna look at it a certain way, but either way he IS definately interesting, which is all I ask out of a character.
• Brotherhood had better action, not that the 2003's action is at all bad.
• Dante strikes me as a much more interesting villain than Father, which is a shame because when we first meet Father, I was captivated. He just seemed to get slowly less and less interesting the more we saw of him and the easiest way to make me hate an anime villain is by giving him a stupid Bishounen Line transformation line. Seriously WHY did his final form have to be a White Haired Pretty Boy teenager. No matter how many forcefeilds he puts up that's just not threatening at all.

All in all, My problem with Brotherhood in terms of story is that it just seems more like average shounen then the 2003 series. It's pretty Epic shounen and has a lot of cool ideas and is exremely watchable, but I've watch the 2003 series five times in less than five months and I just never get tired of it. It's *srtiking* and different from any other show I've ever watched, which is really something I can't say about Brotherhood. Like I said the mood dissonance and stilted writing in Brotherhood is annoying but it is by no means a bad show.

FMA: 10/10 Brotherhood: 8/10

Also, why does eveyone hate Shamballa so much? Yeah it's a step down from the first series but it's by no means bad. I quite frankly think the movies ending is extremely fitting for the tone of the series; Ed and Al are trapped, but they still have eachother, and a whole new world for the two of them to explore. Hell, in a few years they can go to New York and meet the cast of Baccano!

Although I will admit, EVERYONE who died in the movie...EVERYONE...deserved a better send off.

Also, the 2003 included this song, so it wins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXQLrkW33f0

edited 28th Jun '12 3:55:21 PM by polooglu

Gotta disagree heavily here. While I wouldn't call either Bradley particularly well written, Brotherhood!Bradley has more dimensions to him than his 2003 counterpart, who just came off as incredibly generic and one-note. Same deal with Kimblee.

I'll agree with the Kimblee bit, and maybe I should rephrase what I said about Bradley.

Really, it's the same things as Brotherhood!Selim. I find 2003!Bradley and Brotherhood!Selim to be incredibly likeable...when they're pretending to be good guys. When they get revealed for what they are, both of them become incredibly flat generic villains.

I also like Jerso, Zampano, Heinkel and Dorius, but in a similar case to Yoki or Mei or Ling, I think including them in the 2003 version would have detracted from the story as opposed to adding to it.

People hated Shamballa because it was poorly executed, had tons on plothole, and most of the character were out of character, or didn't develop at all at the end of the series.

Also YMMV with the mood at time, the tone and the mood of the character fit some situation, but sometime 2003 can be a bit melodramatic at times.

Could you also define a average shonen? Seeing as I found Brotherhood writing too be to complex just to be dismissed as a average shonen.

edited 28th Jun '12 11:40:27 PM by DavidtheMouse14

As I already mentioned, I found it the opposite way around but I don't think we'll get anywhere pitting diametrically opposed views against one another.

Comparing the two Hohenheim versions is interesting though. The Brotherhood version is much more serious. I kind of like both, but the Brotherhood version more. He was far more loyal. The 2003 Hohenheim seemed like a more relaxed guy, so he's kind of a cool really, and I feel like he would be easier to be friends with. He's actually significantly less of a father figure than he is in Brotherhood, but although I mark the Brotherhood version up for that, I can't hold it against the 2003 version.

While I ultimately prefer Brotherhood, I'm annoyed at the number of people who call Ed an inconsistent character in the first anime because he eventually learns to kill his enemies. "That's so out of character! Ed would never kill under any circumstances!" It's called character development. Ed was forced into a situation where his only option was to go against his own ethics. It created conflict for him and it was good writing. Expecting him to always find a way to have his cake and eat it too is kind of... well, trite.

I'm mentioning that criticism in particular because I just heard someone bash the first anime over it recently.

That's... dumb. Really dumb. Besides, 2003!Ed was a different character from Brotherhood!Ed.

Sorry if I came out like that, but to be honest that what most reaction tends to be when it come to Shamballa.

Most I agree with, I didn't like how Roy, Al, and Winry was portrayed in that movie, and the alchemy really didn't make any sense.

Then again the only good thing I like about it, was to see the characters in brand new animation. Oh and the opening theme.

edited 29th Jun '12 2:44:11 AM by DavidtheMouse14

Well, it is a story about a young, superpowered protagonist and his True Companions saving the world by defeating an Evil Overlord and his Quirky Mini Boss Squad through a series of over-the-top battles, ultimately triumphing thanks to hard work and the Power of Friendship.

I'm referring to the fact that earlier in on this page I basically said that Brotherhood is a favourite anime of mine and the 2003 anime is just a pretty average shounen show.

To me Shamballa was just more of the same. It's not the worst tie in movie I've seen, but it's just kind of unnecessary and pointless. Plus the characters were odd in it, yeah.

So in actual fact I probably agree with you.

Kay.

Er, I wouldn't really say Edward is super powered, I don't really consider alchemy to be ultimate power or things like that, I consider more of a handy ability, then some average powerful aura stuff you get from most from shonen.

As for the other points well, you got me there what you said is basically true, but still I find Brotherhood to be to great too be classified as average shonen , it was for me in turn of writing, the plot things really didn't get cliche in tell, Father ultimate plan was revealed, and it background, as well as the fact that it doesn't have most generic traits from shonen, but then again Brotherhood in the end is a a shonen, and a very great one.

I guess the real problem is that, these day people consider calling something a shonen, like it a insult or something, which is a pet peeve of mine.