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Yet Another Gender Topic: Females better than Males?

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MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#1: Mar 4th 2011 at 3:09:14 AM

Dammit psychology, this is not what I wanted!

Contrary to jokes and one-liners, women are better drivers than men. They’re also better at getting the joke. And better with hammers. And video games. And social networking. And did we mention, they get dressed faster than guys? This isn’t opinion, it’s fact, and Dan Abrams can prove it.

In his new book, Man Down: Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt That Women Are Better Cops, Drivers, Gamblers, Spies, World Leaders, Beer Tasters, Hedge Fund Managers, and Just About Everything Else, Abrams collects research from leading studies over the past few years to make the case for the ‘fairer’ sex. A legal analyst for ABC News and former lawyer, he approached the topic as a defense attorney, using evidence that already exists to debunk popular myths about women.

“In nearly every field, statistics and studies show that women are better collaborators, are more cautious and more adept at navigating treacherous terrain,” writes Abrams in his book’s opening statement. “I am not convinced that women as a group play basketball or read maps better than men. The evidence here will show, however, that women are living longer and evolving better than men.” It takes a lot for a man to admit his own weaknesses (there’s a chapter on how women tolerate pain better), so we wondered why Abrams would make the case for women. Turns out, it’s a man’s job.

Shine: How did you decide to do this book? Dan Abrams: I was hired to write a light article for a magazine about certain areas that women are better in than men. Some of the evidence surprised me, so I went and looked into the underlying research. Most of it was true, some was exaggerated, some anecdotal. But I kept finding more and more real studies and the evidence is compelling when you look at it all together. I couldn’t believe there’s been no major book about it.

Shine: Why now? D.A.: There’s a lot more evidence now. A lot of the studies from the book are from the last three years. It’s only been in the last twenty or so years, that women have been on a relatively even playing field in terms of work to do many of these studies. We weren’t able to make fair comparisons before, because women were a fraction of the working world. Now we’re see women taking over the majority in many professions. But only recently has there been enough time to look back to compare men versus women and only recently has there been real interest.

Shine: Which gender is leading these studies? D.A.: Of the studies I looked at, a vast majority of lead researchers are men, but the broad trend trackers are women.

Shine: What finding surprised you the most? D.A.: I was most surprised at how conclusive the evidence was for the fact that women tolerate pain better. They endure more pain throughout their lives, in more bodily areas and with greater frequency, according to researchers at the University of Bath. According to the medical journal Plastic and Reconstructive Surgery, women have an average of 34 more nerve fibers per square centimeter of facial skin, while men have an average of 17. New research is suggesting the fact that women tend to endure pain more makes them more immune to it. It’s the old aphorism, “That which doesn’t kill me makes me stronger.”

Shine: Are women really better at tasting beer? D.A.: The evidence is clear that women have a better sense of smell. In one study, researchers questioned whether men or women be better able to smell sweat behind fragrances, and women were fooled far less. But also they have a better sense of taste, and can apply it to just about anything. Taste is based on smell, as well as the number of taste buds a person has, and women are more likely to have a greater number of more-sensitive taste buds. And it’s not just beer that they’re better at tasting, but wine as well.

Shine: What about sports—men are better at sports, right? D.A.: There’s no question that men have larger muscles, so they tend to be better at most sports. But there are certain areas—particularly endurance sports—where women are better. Studies show that estrogen is a disadvantage for muscle development but an advantage when it comes to endurance. Another advantage for women is that their bodies more efficiently process oxygen. When it comes to ultra-marathons—say, a 135 mile race without sleep—women can beat men. It’s reflective of something we see throughout the book— when it comes to race of life, women won’t sprint but they'll run longer. In baseball terms, men may hit the home run but women hit the singles and doubles more often and end up with a better average. This is true in financial fields as well: women are better long-term investors.

Shine: It makes sense that women are hard-wired for endurance, considering another chapter in the book entitled, “Women Live Longer.” D.A.: Women live an average of five years longer than men. The reasons for this are both genetic and behavior-based. First of all, women have stronger immune systems, again due to estrogen which aids the fight against disease-inducing enzymes. But women are also less likely to engage in risky behavior. For example, I found that women are hit by lightning less often than men. That’s because the guy may not get off the roof when there’s a thunderstorm coming.

Shine: Does the same theory apply to women being safer drivers? D.A.: Men are more likely to engage in reckless behavior, like driving drunk. One study found male drivers have 77 percent higher risk of dying in a car accident than women. It’s translated to insurance rates, women have 7 percent lower rates on the whole because they’re less careless drivers. In Australia, they actually petitioned to have more women bus drivers, because they found they’re more likely to treat buses better and have fewer accidents.

Shine: Bus drivers aren’t the only jobs women excel at, according to your research. What other jobs are women better at than men? D.A.: Women were found to be less corruptible as cops. In both Lima, Peru and Volgograd, Russia where police corruption was a major issue, the governments campaigned to hire more women cops. There’s another study that women are more effective as political leaders than men. It suggests, we’d be a better country if there were more women in the highest echelons of politics.

Shine: In the field of medicine, the findings are also in favor of women. D.A.: One of the most definitive studies in the book was done in 2009 by the British government. They collected a database of information on all the investigations of medical misconduct or incompetence over a period of eight years. It was the largest study of medical performance ever. They found that while forty percent of doctors were women, 80 percent of those under investigation were men. In the U.S., there were similar findings. Male physicians were twice as likely to be sued as women.

Shine: With all this counter-evidence, why are women still subjected to the same old stereotypes? D.A.: Women weren’t allowed to vote in this country 100 years ago. We’re still in the period of catch up. We still haven’t had a female president, or that many women running Fortune 500 companies. When we get to point of seeing just as many women in the top levels of every profession, that's when we'll see a sea change at lower levels.

Shine: How is the internet giving women more of an advantage? D.A.: One of the clichés about women is that they’re more communicative—those who want to demean women say they like to gossip more. That’s a pejorative way of commenting on the fact that women are more involved in social media. A 2010 study found women were six percent more exposed to social networking sites and spent more time on them. Other research found women were less likely to be victims of internet fraud.

Shine: Are you worried about backlash from men? D.A.: I already had one men’s rights group send a petition to get me fired from my job. They wrote, “Dan Abrams is penning a sexist book claiming male inferiority.” But this book is not about my musings or opinions. This is me approaching the topic like a lawyer. Is there some hyperbole in the headline? Sure, but the reality is the trends here are significant and important. The goal of this book is not be viewed as a feminist book but an objective book. Someone with no bias is examining the evidence and coming forth to say it’s compelling. I’ll get mocked by many men, but a woman who made the same findings would be discounted for writing this book because of her bias.

Shine: You've provided a lot of evidence that women are better at some of life's most important tasks. What are men better at? D.A.: Men are better at parking, they’re better dieters, they have better distance vision, they read maps better. One study suggests they even treat their friends better. But my next book won’t be about making the case for men. Overall I found that men’s biggest problem is that they’re too confident and women’s biggest problem is that they’re not confident enough. Truth is, I think the evidence is overwhelming in favor of women.

Read my stories!
del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#2: Mar 4th 2011 at 3:21:53 AM

Then again, the differences in the arveage tends to be not large enough to justify any *archy in any form in the first place.
Of course, the "conclusion" is not so shabby :P

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#3: Mar 4th 2011 at 3:25:48 AM

I'd disagree with many of those points, especially pain tolerance and "better cops".

MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#4: Mar 4th 2011 at 3:26:28 AM

[up]On a personal level or on a general level?

Read my stories!
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#5: Mar 4th 2011 at 3:35:15 AM

Well my argument with pain tolerance is that women have more nerve endings, and thus do indeed feel more pain, but that's rather arbitrary as to me or you, pain is pain on a sliding scale of what we can put up with. While it could be argued that women feel more pain, men complain about it less as a result of social conditioning that we're looking weak if we do so. I've seen males get near-mortal wounds and just grit their teeth and laugh off the pain as best they can, where as I've seen women endure things like shin splints and turn into a crying mess on the track. Not to say I haven't met women who are tough as nails and men who complain about booboos constantly, but that's my general impression.

As for cops.. I'll agree with his statement that they are less corruptible, because men think in the short term payoff generally over long term investment. Loyalty is a long term investment, bribery is a short term payoff. What I wouldn't agree with is that they are all around better cops however, if you took male and female cops, none of which were corrupt, I think male cops perform better for a variety of reasons, some of which are not any fault of the females whatsoever.

Female cops tend not to be taken seriously or respected much by the trash of society that they deal with daily, and to a man, when they compensate for this by being rough and no-nonsense, it comes across to us more as "Wow, what an obnoxious bitch." than "This dude is fucking scary." effect it has with male officers who show their teeth. The other fact is that more often than not, a male assailant is willing to flee or get violent with a female officer, as he's going to gamble that he is tougher than her.

Now female cops do have a specialty, and that's de-escalation and comforting people. The humanitarian and helpful side of Law Enforcement is something female officers excel at, where as male officers are more proficient at dealing with the worst criminals around, better handle sneaky shit because we're extremely untrusting and paranoid, as well as on-average being better fighters. Women are the ones who you want to speak to someone contemplating suicide, or trying to get a rape victim to testify. Men are the folks you want kicking down the door in to serve the arrest warrant on said rapist.

Now these are all generalizations, I've met female cops who are kickass fighters, horrible at empathy, and male cops who don't have an aggressive bone in their body, and are more about the cerebral aspects of the job, I'm just stating the trend that I've seen.

Beholderess from Moscow Since: Jun, 2010
#6: Mar 4th 2011 at 4:04:16 AM

Of course, any statistical generalisations mean little on personal level. It means not as much "women/men are better suited for certain things" as "there are more women/men suited for certain things than the people of opposite gender".

If we disagree, that much, at least, we have in common
MrAHR Ahr river from ಠ_ಠ Since: Oct, 2010 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Ahr river
#7: Mar 4th 2011 at 4:13:31 AM

[up]But the same could be said for the reverse. Anecdotes mean little on a widespread scale.

Read my stories!
del_diablo Den harde nordmann from Somewher in mid Norway Since: Sep, 2009
Den harde nordmann
#8: Mar 4th 2011 at 4:15:21 AM

[up]: Indeed. But 5% effectivity is 5 more % effectivity regardless.

A guy called dvorak is tired. Tired of humanity not wanting to change to improve itself. Quite the sad tale.
CommandoDude They see me troll'n from Cauhlefohrnia Since: Jun, 2010
They see me troll'n
Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#10: Mar 4th 2011 at 4:25:23 AM

Nor here in LA, all the soccer moms in assault vehicles are about ready to drive me to murder.

edited 4th Mar '11 4:25:50 AM by Barkey

DJay32 Matkaopas from Yorkshire Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Wishfully thinking
Matkaopas
#11: Mar 4th 2011 at 4:28:35 AM

I'm not reading the topic. I'm just reading the thread title.

Yes. Then again, I'm a female supremacist; I'm biased. Ignore me.

tout est sacré pour un sacreur (Avatar by Rappu!)
BalloonFleet MASTER-DEBATER from Chicago, IL, USA Since: Jun, 2010
MASTER-DEBATER
#12: Mar 4th 2011 at 5:40:30 AM

link related - think this is the website for the book http://www.mandownnews.com/

WHASSUP....... ....with lolis!
Shrimpus from Brooklyn, NY, US Since: May, 2010
#13: Mar 4th 2011 at 5:43:00 AM

Not alot of new information there. It has been an open secret that on average men are not going to do as well as women. Then average male just isn't as well put together as a woman. More risk inherent in the design.

The problem is that books with a message is that they tend to neglect the critical details. It doesn't always impeach the thesis but the individual bricks that the house is built on are often crumbling.

For example the running stat is pretty much false. There is alot of smoke but very little fire in that particular debate. Most of the people participating are pretty much astonished that this might be a level playing field. Not one that women have an inherent advantage. There is alot of mumbo jumbo sbout fuel sources but they used the word anti oxidant which is science voodoo and pretty much puts that claim on hold.

Another problem is the facts he is citing don't always have bearing. For an example of that you have the stats on malpractice. The number of malpractie suits against a doctor isn't determined by skill, it is determined by bedside manner. Over and over it has been shown that what keeps people from getting sued is being nice.

And on an aside. Barkey is pretty much spot on with the cop thing. One of the major problems that women cops have is that they don't go to the mat fast enough when stuff is going pear shaped. Might be fixed over time but alot of the questions that Abrahms are asking aren't the correct questions so the answers he gets aren't gonna be the right.

Two major lurking variables.

1. Ambition and the effect that has on effort. 2. Variance. Male extremes are more extreme. Stupider morons and more brilliant geniuses.

edited 4th Mar '11 5:45:01 AM by Shrimpus

dontcallmewave Brony? Moi? surely you jest! from My home Since: Nov, 2013
Brony? Moi? surely you jest!
#14: Mar 4th 2011 at 5:46:00 AM

Both genders have their strengths

He who fights bronies should see to itthat he himself does not become a brony. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, Pinkie Pie gazes Also
SNESMasterKI Since: Oct, 2009
#15: Mar 4th 2011 at 5:55:32 AM

This truly disgusts me. Look at the last thing Abrams says, putting aside how absurd it is to tell an individual that they're automatically worse at something based on statistical averages, his fucking goal is to make men feel inferior. He wants the other side of his statistical arguments ignored, he's decided that billions of people should be told they're inferior because of a stereotype (and not a stereotype he can claim is biologically proven, his claim that men have too much self-esteem). His stated goal is to make half of humanity feel worse about themselves, to hell with the individuals who don't fit into his mold. And if he actually did accomplish this, it wouldn't even do anything, just flip gender dominance roles.

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#16: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:04:43 AM

^You know you could just, not take him seriously.

SNESMasterKI Since: Oct, 2009
#17: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:09:02 AM

He was taken seriously enough to get this interview published, although I'm not sure if the tone of the interviewer indicates that he's not taking Abrams seriously, or that he's not taking how harmful telling someone they're inferior is seriously. Obviously I don't think he will be taken seriously enough to flip gender oppression ratios, that was just an assertion that nothing productive could come of Abram's goal even if he was unrealistically successful.

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#18: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:09:41 AM

Tiger mom got published too...

SNESMasterKI Since: Oct, 2009
#19: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:11:52 AM

Tiger Mom was actually the last thing I saw linked to on this board that got me as upset as this, the conversation was already so branched off by the time I saw it though that I didn't bother posting.

inane242 Anwalt der Verdammten from A B-Movie Bildungsroman Since: Nov, 2010
Anwalt der Verdammten
#20: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:14:28 AM

Men are better, 'cause they're sexy. :3

The 5 geek social fallacies. Know them well.
RalphCrown Short Hair from Next Door to Nowhere Since: Oct, 2010
Short Hair
#21: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:20:24 AM

So, men have felt superior to women for all of human history. Now that the field might be getting level, or even tilted a bit the other way, it's every kind of horrible.

Personally, I've always thought women are slightly more evolved than men.

Under World. It rocks!
SNESMasterKI Since: Oct, 2009
#22: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:22:53 AM

^Did it occur to you that not a single individual has "felt superior" to anyone throughout all of history? The idea that innocent people should be punished for the actions of others, especially those who they absolutely could not have influenced, is indeed horrible.

edited 4th Mar '11 6:24:29 AM by SNESMasterKI

Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#23: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:24:20 AM

Who the hell is talking about punishing anyone?

SNESMasterKI Since: Oct, 2009
#24: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:27:33 AM

Ralph Crown was, he implied that gender oppression throughout history somehow made the idea of it being "tilted the other way" less serious, which only makes sense if you place some sort of guilt on people alive today for the actions of people in the past.

Karalora Since: Jan, 2001
#25: Mar 4th 2011 at 6:29:15 AM

Dude, you are reading way too much into his post. Chill. You're panicking just because some guy wrote a book about things that women are better at (on average) than men. Why is that so threatening?


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