General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

@Penders' Last Issue: This one, #159, wherein Sonic and Shadow fight a bunch of Metal Sonic Overlords made by Chuck and Rotor for... some reason. Can you tell he had long run out of ideas by that point? (If he ever had any?)

@Issue When Law Suit Happened: I have no clue. I think it was in 2009 or thereabouts, but don't quote me on that.

edited 28th Apr '17 1:43:13 PM by kkhohoho

I absolutely disagree that the classic style is less fun, but it's not surprising that the fanbase is as divided as it is.

Did anyone post the video below? Excellent observations, basically encompasses all the issues we've been talking about.

At this point I think fan-created OC Packbell is more suited to the Archiescape than any of the Pender creations.

The presuppositions that Sonic Team could only have purely negative reasons for not making a fully boost game, and the circular logic that follows, is... interesting to listen to, at least. I mean, I can agree with it in theory, especially in regards to the sequence of Unleashed->Colors->Generations, but there's a bit of that false dichotomy with the implicit "they're either specifically making a fully Boost game, or they're not committed to making game in the current market at all."

That said, the rest of the video is spot on. I agree with the assertion that Sonic Team is getting diminishing returns from stuffing Classic Sonic into things, and that having both Classic Sonic in Forces while also making Sonic Mania is baffling. And I especially agree with the idea that years ago, when they've had opportunities for it, Sonic Team should've made standard or side games with standard varieties of gameplay that last, such that the fanbase could always immediately look in those directions for whatever niche they wanted to experience. It's the success Nintendo hit with the NSMB series, for instance.

edited 29th Apr '17 1:39:07 AM by KnownUnknown

whatever you say, guy who made the video

Lmao I didn't make the video dude.

It's true that he didn't even acknowledge the fact that the padding may not because Sega/ST is not confident in a boost-only game, but because that style is inconvenient for the devs. They have to create huge stages that only last a few minutes long. If they didn't pad the game would be super short.

That said, Sega's been doing this unnecessary padding since before the boost era so that's not the best excuse. And I mean, the point about the brand having no identity is ridiculously true. I mean the fanbase doesn't even have a core identity.

I wasn't talking about you. If I was talking about you I would've said "Element X" and not "guy who made the video". I can't believe I have to clear this up.

Well you quoted me, therefore I thought you were referring to me. Chill out.

No way! I can't believe this!

hmmm. In case anyone ever wondered why Sonic doesn't seem "cool" anymore

edited 29th Apr '17 11:32:15 AM by BlackYakuzu94

More Sonic World, and... anyone want to get trippy?

I just figured sign of the times combined with an onslaught of terrible games. The voice-acting undeniably played a big role in making him seem corny too. Great video, I like this guy's stuff.

Sonic has many thing working against him in terms of culture changing, but it's not like they couldn't make it work.

But yea, looking back there's too much talking in the 3D games. As if the developers felt that if the characters weren't constantly saying stuff, pointing out the obvious, that people would get bored or not understand what's going on. And I hate when games do that because not only is it annoying as hell to listen to, it feels like it's patronizing the player.

Showing things happening instead of talking about them is something this series could seriously benefit from.

Funny you have issue yet you play Blazblue where characters are constantly chatting even when getting hit. OW-HEY YOU SON OF-ARGGGH -OW THAT HURT -ARRGRGRGHH

I figure they have them chatting because the character is supposed to be reacting to what's going on during the levels. it can get to overkill levels(Sonic Boom and Heroes) but I'm fine with it as long as it isn't overdone. I prefer some speech instead of him being silent the whole time. Also talking during like hint balls is nothing to complain about.

Really I dislike Sonic's current voice and his colors writers do an awful job of writing his dialogue which makes him really corny. Granted I still don't think this makes him uncool completely, as a lot of his coolness came from what he could do which he still has.

I actually feel they shouldn't have sonic slang it up too much as it easily makes him fall into the Totally Radical trope as we've seen in the past. But at the same time he shouldn't get mickey moused and too clean and straight forward either.

The adventure games came out at a time of generally bad acting in general so i feel it's a bit disingenuous to hold it too much against them.

edited 29th Apr '17 2:42:19 PM by Vertigo_High

I think people either forget or don't know that Sonic is one of the few video game series that successfully grew with its audience, if only for a time.

The only other series that has done that, AFAIK, is Mega Man, and that series only did it through spinoff series after spinoff series as opposed to the original Classic series. Nintendo on the other hand seems to rely heavily on Fleeting Demographic Rule regarding Mario, Pokémon, and Zelda (how else do explain those three being "formulaic" [even though I still hate that word]?)

And Vertigo is right. Voice Acting in video games wasn't exactly an established, professional art in the Sixth Generation. And even if it wasn't, the series' growth was still evident, even if you didn't fully appreciate the "variety" of gameplay (which I never will). There were themes regarding growing up and being independent, staying dedicated to your morals, government corruption, and genocide in the Dreamcast era.

Is it any wonder that some people resent the post-Unleashed era for reversing that growth? At least when Unleashed itself went simpler, it didn't throw away the maturity that the series built up.

X, Zero, Legends, and ZX are spinoffs, they're sequel series. That's like saying The Lord of the Rings is a spinoff of The Hobbit or The Heroes of Olympus is a spinoff of Percy Jackson and the Olympians.

@Zelenal: I don't know what the hell I should call those series though.

On one hand, yes they continue the story in a later chronological period.

On the other hand, those series ran somewhat concurrently with each other in real life.

edited 29th Apr '17 5:14:57 PM by WaxingName

You call them exactly what I did. They're sequel series. The fact that most of them ran at the same time is just because Capcom is really weird and likes money.

I think the underlying problem with everything is - and it's probably been stated already, either by someone here or in a video posted here - that Sonic Team is too afraid of their fanbase/critics. That's probably why they wanna avoid doing anything to heavy (which will most likely be the same with Forces if pattern recognition is to be believed); so as to not alienate critics and/or parts of the fanbase. Ultimately, though, it is because of this fear that they end up doing just that in the end. We're already kinda seeing it now with Classic Sonic being thrown into Forces for probably no other reason than "Hey, people liked Generations, let's do that again!"

I mean, is anyone actually amped about Classic Sonic being in this? Is anyone actually looking forward to playing as him in Forces, especially considering we're already getting an undoubtedly better version of him with Sonic Mania? It's been discussed before; it's not like they were bad overall, but people (at least, not anyone here) didn't go back to Gens for the Classic levels; they wanted to rip through re-imagined 3D stages as Modern Sonic. But instead of Sonic Team looking at Gens and examining exactly what people liked about it, they're basically repeating it beat-by-beat gameplay-wise, right down to Classic Sonic's presence, and hoping for the best.

The only reason why I'm looking forward to Classic Sonic being in Forces is because (in my humble opinion,) 3D Boost Gameplay is 9 times out of 10 boring as hell, and I'll take regurgitated classic gameplay over that any day of the week.

edited 29th Apr '17 6:15:28 PM by kkhohoho

Then like I said, just go for Mania and leave Forces alone. Not only are you getting what's sure to be a superior product, but you also get Tails and Knuckles.

I think we had a good... 30-40 page stretch without anybody revisiting the "what's wrong the Sonic fanbase why are we so unpleasable/let me tell you what's wrong with Sonic," topics.

I bring this up because I'm certain I've read

this statement before and it's not even the same person. And I find that amusing. :p

edited 29th Apr '17 6:09:09 PM by Soble

Oh come on, Blazblue dialogue is 10x more entertaining than anything in Sonic. Like come on, are you gonna tell me this isn't the best thing ever.

edited 29th Apr '17 8:53:03 PM by BlackYakuzu94

Still not as entertaining as Shadow's "This is like taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me".