General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

Sonic is cheating by using his natural Chaos Power to generate that barrier around him (you can see it when he boosts).

He can also accelerate to ludricous speeds in short bursts (ie Quickstepping).

I know I brought this up a while back, but I still wonder about the hypothetical scenario that has SEGA asking PlatinumGames to do an honest-to-goodness Sonic game.

I personally would imagine P* would have this kind of reaction:

And have its A-team come up with the best Sonic game they could possibly make. It'd be nice if said best Sonic game was a throwback to Sonic Adventure 1, albeit with new bells and whistles to keep it from being dated and sucky. (Or whatever people's issues with SA1 were.)

...I really liked SA1.

Inb 4 the game has a seven hour long story.

And that'd be different from other Sonic games how?

@Joe: Depends on what kinds of bells and whistles you want.

Are you talking more alternate gameplay styles or ways to add on to the main Sonic gameplay?

Because I want the latter and can do with out the former.

Well, I guess if we're talking about a straight-up remake of SA1 (at least that's what I've decided to talk about), they could take all the essentials that made SA1 what it was and revitalize the whole thing by giving it the hardcore Platinum treatment.

At the top of my head, they could:

• Rework the dialogue from the ground up so it doesn't sound so wooden and/or bland and have the current cast. (Obviously.)
• Take Amy's gameplay and retool it so it's more along the lines of say, NieR: Automata minus the shooting and weapon swapping and you're still getting chased by ZERO. And probably ditch the "hiding in a barrel" aspect.
• Bring back the Chao Gardens. PLEASE.
• You guys remember that Twinkle Circuit minigame? Maybe have it so it isn't just one single track. And maybe have multiplayer?
• Maybe try something different for Knuckles? (Can't think of ways to change his gameplay...)
• Sonic, Tails, and Gamma's gameplay styles are pretty solid by themselves, so there's not much to fix there I think. I guess polish them as best as possible like give Sonic that lock-on feature for the Homing Attack he has in the Boost games.
• And...yeah, get rid of Big's story or find some way to not make him suck like giving him a more puzzle-based gameplay or something. (Looking back, I'm not that huge a fan of his fishing gameplay...)

edited 23rd Apr '17 3:36:09 PM by TargetmasterJoe

You don't need to change much of anything for Knuckles in Adventure 1.

It's the sequel that botched things with its much more limited radar.

edited 23rd Apr '17 3:39:46 PM by Grounder

Not to mention Big's gameplay was there to show the water effects, they could retool that to a puzzle.

Here's how Knuckles' gameplay should be: Just like Sonic's point-A-to-B, alternate path-filled levels.

Of course, given how his gliding and climbing break it if they keep it the same as it is now, they'll have to severely nerf it, but such is life.

But why?

At that point, he is literally "Sonic but better" and Tails already kind of has that covered.

There's no need to do that when he can actually be played differently AND well.

He can be actually be unique in a 3D playing field!

And we believe it because the games actually visibly and (more-or-less) mechanically have him do so, yes, beyond just having it be a tagline.

@Grounder: In Sonic 2 & Knuckles, some bosses were borderline impossible to beat with Knuckles's horrible jump height. I'm not saying that's a good thing, but Knuckles isn't always objectively superior to Sonic.

Besides, I'm a big fan of Sonic's Insta-shield, and Knuckles never has that.

Like I said before, that's just the problem they introduced by giving Tails and Knux their signature abilities in the first place.

Since flying and gliding/climbing already breaks the platforming, they had to give Tails and Knux their own unique goals so that playing as them could be more engaging.

It's a Morton's Fork: give them their flight and gliding/climbing in Sonic's levels, and the game becomes unengagingly easy. Give them their own levels and the game becomes incoherent and all-over-the-place. There's just no way to win if Tails and Knux have their full abilities from the 2D games translated to 3D.

I don't think it's the worst thing ever like I used to, but I still am not fond of making them have different goals and level designs just so they can use the full range of their abilities. I'd rather they just nerf them so that they can be playable in Sonic's levels without breaking the game.

Having different levels for different characters is hardly a novel or debilitating concept in gaming, so at least on that front there shouldn't be much trouble.

That said, free range flight for otherwise normally moving characters 3D barely ever works. It's horrible to balance and difficult to implement in such a way that it's both mechanically sound and entertaining (imo, it's a basic reason why Superman has never had a good game) - the cameras alone as a nightmare, let alone everything else. I've thought for a while that the best way to bring Tails back is to give him classic gameplay + flight, and have Sonic take whatever the current gameplay style is.

Knuckles might have a better time of it if they stick just to climbing and gliding and do a good job with the level design, as both of those still keep the player rooted on the ground and the rest of the mechanics, and if implemented right can be conducive to momentum.

edited 23rd Apr '17 9:33:16 PM by KnownUnknown

Best way I've always thought to have it:

• Sonic: Fastest, homing attack, bounce power, lightspeed dash, highest jump, Super Sonic, either spindash or boost (depending on what they go with, maybe boost just for Super Sonic like in Lost World?)
• Tails: flying for a certain number of button presses, tail attack, middle ground for jumping and speed (so basically the Mario in this sense)
• Knuckles: slowest, shortest jump, punching, digging, gliding, swimming(?)

basically how they are in the Advance games, where they were at their most balanced, with a bit of influence from Sonic 3 & Knuckles and Adventure. Don't think there's much of an issue with that.

Or Tails can just be the "Super Guide" character since he can fly over everything. There just would be a penalty for using him.

In SA1, he works just fine in Sonic's levels. The issue here is that they made him race Sonic so that he wouldn't be too game breaking.

Man, it really would've been great if SA1 just had a Free Play mode and ditched Big's gameplay.

Forget that, I loved Big's gameplay as a kid. It's the sort of pointless diversion that gives the game a multi-faceted personality. It's not "just" a game where you run down a linear path and try to break the game by going faster or timing jumps.

It also led to some creative reinventions of stages, like going into that pool area of the Egg Carrier.

The Chao Garden didn't make any sense and was mostly a convoluted, inexplicable pet simulation system that didn't really affect the main game. But it's beloved for adding something else to do. On that same grounds, Big's gameplay was fine, and better yet, short.

What they need to do is refine it, like just about everything from Sonic Adventure 1. Add more fish to catch, bigger fish to catch, more items, more areas, more BIG.

My god what I am saying.

Being "multi-faceted" isn't really a good thing in some circumstances, especially the way Sonic Team tries to do it. It just results in the game stretching itself trying to please different crowds, and those crowds just focus on one "facet" over the other at best.

I will note, however, that there is nothing wrong with the alternate gameplay of Sonic Rush Adventure, but that was because it was simple enough to be a fun little diversion. The alternate gameplay of the Adventure games just feel like half-baked ideas for separate games at best.

I'm apparently in the minority here, but I really, really think that trying to homogenize Adventure is a loss.

If you really want every gameplay to be Sonic but with X, a remake of Adventure is the wrong place to do it.

Like it or not, the variety is part of the game's identity, and the only outright loathed style is Big's.

Are you talking about homogenizing a remake of Adventure, or homogenizing the Adventure style?

Because, yes, there's no reason to do the former, but a lot of 3D fan projects (particularly Sonic World) proves that the latter is possible.

And while variety is part of Adventure's identity, I don't think it should be part of Sonic's identity, as in the franchise as a whole.

There's a reason why no other video game series does alternate gameplay to the same extent as Sonic Adventure did, including later Sonic games.

I legitimately thought that we were still on a remake of Adventure 1, and if we were not, I apologize.

I'd be disappointed, but much more understanding if they decided to go that route with an Adventure 3 or Adventure: Subtitle.

Just take the Adventure gameplay, add drift and quick step to it, don't add anything like racing Sonic, slow platforming, treasure hunting, or shooting to it, and bam, easy Sonic game that can fit many characters.

Only sacrifice here is to nerf all characters who can fly, glide, and climb so that they have an easier time balancing around it.

Not for nothing though, why do the characters *need* balancing if they're all in their own separate stories anyway? It's not like this is a Mario Kart or Super Smash Bros. game here.

Because then people feel bad when their favorite character is objectively inferior to someone else.

It's a compromise between those who don't like "alternate gameplay" but "want to enjoy Sonic's friends" at the same time.