It's easier for 2D mechanics to split between speed and platforming, as it has less an issue with spacing and area control (as well as the disorienting effects of high speeds) than 3D planes do, as well as having an easier time making use of vertical movement no matter how fast the player it going.
So no, the problem likely wouldn't have ever been so prominent with Rush.
edited 22nd Mar '17 9:28:29 AM by KnownUnknown
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
Precise movement is easier in 2D games than 3D games. 2D games can be both speedy and precise at the same time. 3D games have it more difficult. They have to choose one of them at a time.
Where there's life, there's hope.
CHADhan Player.
I dunno, I feel like this is a no-win situation then; if there's too much speed, there's complaints how Sonic runs in a "straight" line. If there's more platforming, people complain there's not enough speed. If there's gimmicks, people complain they get in the way. If there's no gimmicks, people complain the game is repetitive and boring.
Is Sonic simply a franchise that cannot work on a 3D plane?
edited 22nd Mar '17 9:29:55 AM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
As fans of a large franchise. We have to accept that not every decision will be made to appeal to us.
Where there's life, there's hope.
Thus turns the Sonic fanbase.
I do think that one of the big things that holds the fanbase back is that we're so insistent on being critical that we complain about things that fanbases of other series either accept as necessary or even applaud as good game design. And the guy narrating that video does a lot of that.
As a result, regardless of how good a 3D Sonic game gets, it will still get itself a hatedom eventually, even if it takes years for it to slowly build up like Colors' did. The only one that hasn't, at least not entirely, is Generations.
The damned if you do/don't issue comes in how with other series, in a situation like this, a developer would straight up ignore the fanbase entirely and focus on making a good game to bring in new fans, but Sonic has long had issue getting presence and popularity outside of its own fanbase - the last big boom for the series was with Adventure. So they're stuck with us.
edited 22nd Mar '17 9:39:30 AM by KnownUnknown
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
CHADhan Player.
That's because Sonic Team use their main titles to experiment with stuff and gauge interest. As a result, when Sonic Team focus more heavily on one particular direction, cue parts of the fanbase claiming Sonic Team are doing it "wrong" for not listening to them.
Normally, a franchise has a consistent direction on what it does and what to expect from it. And any experimental styles are mainly saved for spin off titles. Sonic Team however does not do this, and as a result you have splintered mess of a fanbase who can't decide on what direction the series should go because Sonic Team have literally gone in every direction possible.
Ideally, they would have just made three separate series to cater to every respective crowd. Let Taxman handle the 2D titles, someone else handle Boom, and Sonic Team themselves go for the 3D games. But alas.
And yea, as much as they should ignore the Unpleasable Fanbase, they can't because they are their primary consumers nowadays. Mainstream appeal in Sonic is basically dead, so all they have left or those die-hard fans.
edited 22nd Mar '17 9:44:50 AM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Anyone see the irony that Sonic is probably the only franchise where the people actually dislike the fact that it keeps changing itself up?
People keep saying series like Zelda, Pokemon, Call of Duty, Dynasty Warriors, and Mega Man are "all the same thing", but I always counter that by saying, "You want the series to be like Sonic?"
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
I still think the big way to prevent this problem would've been to do what Nintendo did with Mario and not only make separate series that provide different things, but to stick with them rather than discarding them after a few years: Mario has a main line series with a mix between stable mechanics and experimental ones, and the NSMB series that provides an uncompllicated but dependable experience that's very accessible. Making the jump for NSMB to consoles was risky, but it paid off: now you have something huge and something simple coming out for Mario in every generation, which both easily brings in new fans and gives old fans things to tide them over easy.
Sonic should've done something like that. Sonic Team's too broke to make a ton of spinoffs, but another, far less expensive and ambitious console series, maybe in Advance style, or Rush style, or (after Generations) Classic style. Something they could make easily without totally breaking the bank, but which could be counted on to always have at least a measure of success and to be a stable, always-the-same thing that people could point to in the series.
Experimenting with the main line isn't as much of a problem if you've got other things to back it up. But Sonic Team has always been all-or-nothing with their games, treating the side-handheld games as passing events.
edited 22nd Mar '17 9:59:35 AM by KnownUnknown
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's exactly what the Advance and Rush series did, but they quit it because the handheld games stopped selling.
CHADhan Player.
They were also probably trying to do something similar with the Sonic Boom franchise and we all know how that turned out. It's like no matter what Sonic does, it's just destined to fail, this is why he's such a Memetic Loser in the eyes of many.
It's just a shame really what's become of this series; the lack of any direction just hurts it in the long run and Sonic Team can only get by for so long by word of mouth and the die-hard fans. Something's gonna give eventually, no matter how long it takes.
And what's sadder, they can't even settle on a consistent style this late in the game without fear of backlash from the other parts of the fanbase and just straight up being ignored by the mainstream.
It's like guys like Mario, Zelda, Pokemon and the like were able find decent jobs after college and settled into something good, while Sonic been hopping from menial job to menial job trying to find a permanent place.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Hence needing to commit to something and have it make the jump to consoles.
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Since I'm new here I thought I'd give a brief history of my history with this franchise.
I recall one weekend my dad rented us a Genesis and Sonic 2. I remember the first time my brother and I played it we got up to Metropolis Zone before we died. I remember how we lost out last life. We were on one of those screw things going up and we were about to hit another screw above us. I stopped but my brother kept going and we got squooshed. We were so impressed that we bought a genesis. I remember we had a ton of trouble with the final boss. We didn't think we could jump high enough to clear his spike arms, and whenever it would do the flying then landing sequence we would always spin dash to the other side of the room to avoid it, thus never seeing that he would bend down for an easy hit. What we always tried to do was aim for his crotch. I do not recommend doing this as it is a very small target.
I remember one time for my birthday I got an issue of the Sonic the Hedgehog comic book, specifically issue 38. I didn't know there was a Sonic comic book, even though I do have issue 14, not sure where that came from, and I was so excited. I followed the series as far as issue 87 before quitting.
I recall many a day getting up at like 5:00 to watch Adventures of Sonic the Hedgehog on TV and on Saturday mornings would watch the other Sonic cartoon. Although I remember one week I saw the first part of the two-part time travel episode and then forgetting or missing the second half next week, thus I was left on a cliffhanger for something like 20 years.
the Quantum Mechanic
I just want to see some of my favorite characters get a little more screentime. That's fine enough for me.
"No will to break."
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
Well Sonic isn't the guy who likes to stay in one place.
@Yakuzu:
You don't think keeping to one style gets backlash from fans? And you named Zelda and Pokemon?
What alternate universe are you from?
Please help out our The History Of Video Games page.
CHADhan Player.
See here's the thing though, those franchises are thriving a lot better than Sonic are they not?
People complain, it's what they do; but that doesn't change the fact those franchise continuously place top. They didn't drop in quality simply because "they stayed the same" They have a tried and true formula that maintains the series. For better or worse.
Whenever there's a new Pokemon or Zelda game, there's always buzz about it. Whenever there's a new Sonic game, there's usually apathy or a collective groan.
And it's funny too because both Zelda and Pokemon's latest games actually broke away from their standard formulas and, despite some issues, garnered more interest as a result.
edited 22nd Mar '17 10:34:50 AM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
There's definitely buzz about Generations and Mania.
edited 22nd Mar '17 10:36:46 AM by RAlexa21th
Where there's life, there's hope.
CHADhan Player.
Nostalgia Filter. Those games hinged on recreating the emotions people about the series from when they were children. Before Generations, Classic Sonic got not attention at all, so seeing him alongside his Modern counterpart was a collective "HOLY SHIT" for everyone who grew up with Sonic.
Mania is the first Classic styled 2D game in years, so it hinges on the same nostalgia. But notice how people are less than enthused about Classic Sonic in Forces. Why? Because ask yourself this, how is Forces any different from Generations...it's literally Classic and Modern again.... The magic is gone because we had already seen him just 6 years ago in the same capacity like in Generations.
And that's another thing, the series can only hinge on the Nostalgia Filter for so long as well. Especially since it seems intent on reusing Green Hill Zone in every single game.
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.
Deranged X-Mas Figure
...Sonic's going to end up like Megaman in 10 years, isn't he?
Main Character
CHADhan Player.
It's a very real possibility.
Not really a lord of anything
Maybe not. Sonic is SEGA's biggest cash cow by far while Mega Man did not enjoy such a luxury with the likes Street Fighter and Monster Hunter being enormous for Capcom. While Capcom could afford to cut Mega Man, I'm not sure if SEGA could afford to cut Sonic.
edited 22nd Mar '17 12:07:30 PM by LordVatek
This song needs more love.
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
Get a crappy spiritual successor?
Where there's life, there's hope.
I mean, it's not like we'll ever know now will we :V
That said, it's less thinking they should make an all-boost game and more Sonic Team's insistence on throwing gimmicks at the audience. Now, I did not hate any of the alternate gameplay styles introduced side from Big's and Silver's arguably; that said, I would have definitely preferred to just play Sonic's gameplay with everyone else.
This is why playing most Sonic games gets tiring; when you start having fun with one style, you're forced to play another one, it's really aggravating and makes for diluted game experience. It's one thing if it's just a Gimmick Level, which is quickly forgotten about. But it's another thing entirely when it encompasses an entire portion of the game.
edited 22nd Mar '17 9:23:27 AM by BlackYakuzu94
A lazy millennial who's good at what he does.