General Sonic The Hedgehog thread

@Irene: Well, Sonic Team still refuses to see that the "variety" is causing the series to lose ground.

The lack of identity that Sonic has displayed ever since the Sonic Adventure series has just now started to come to the forefront now that we've seen the relative success of Colors and Generations as they have (comparatively) less intrusive gimmicks and gameplay changes.

Too bad that both games were developed simultaneously and so we have ultimate proof that the intrusive gimmicks are bringing down the series.

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Sonic Runners runs that point into the ground. I don't see where they're adding any variety at all. So I don't get what you're complaining about here because they're going with what you wanted.

We know they can't risk a spin-off that will flop again. They have to play it safe. If we are going to get any full variety, it'll have to be in a normal game at best. But they don't seem interested in doing that. There was none since Unleashed ended anyway. Stuff like Riders is the same for everyone, just different weight classes. Which is as much variety as Mario Kart(almost every game had none besides sometimes giving characters unique items at best). That's the current variety Sonic is stuck with now... which you've advocated the whole time. So I kind of really don't see what the issue is here when you got what you wanted?

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

I'm saying that they're still insisting on variety: which is exactly what Lost World did to the detriment to the game as a whole. The core gameplay was already rather iffy, but they just had to add in all those game-changing gimmicks and controls on top of it rather than polishing this new style that admitted has some potential.

There is such a thing as too little variety for me, too, but that line is more around Rivals and Heroes instead.

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I'm just upset that it took until the DS was a thing for us to finally have decent handheld ports of the original Genesis games. Seriously, we got practically the entire SNES catalog on the GBA, but no Sonic ports beyond that which shall not be named. That's wack, yo.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

I remember that Sonic Collection. Unlike Sonic GENESIS, it worked far better(not that porting and renewing the original was a bad idea, but it didn't work out that time). I also loved that it contained all the lock-on features.

I just wish Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection included the lock-on parts. Even the Wii VC version of the first 4 Sonic Mega Drive games had the lock-on features. Which is why I'm seriously annoyed they can't port n64 games that use the memory pak properly. If they can get the lock-on working, it should not be that hard to make a memory pak combination work. It would have to save onto the Wii/Wii U itself, but memory paks take a pretty small amount of memory. Probably all of them for most games could barely be one overall block on the Wii or Wii U system itself. Maybe more, depending the really big memory games.

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

The only problem with that DS Collection—the audio suffered greatly. The versions of the songs they used were technically right, but sounded like bad quality mp3s rather than the original files or what have you. I remember distinctly even at least one song that wasn't set to loop properly (I think Chemical Plant Zone, which is shaneful) and thus when it needed to loop, it just jarringly ended abruptly at a certain point and went to the loop point. Oh, the songs weren't in stereo either.

Insert witty 'n clever quip here.

I think GENESIS had audio issues too.

I actually tend to turn my handhelds off since the sound often comes out with a lot of static. Yeah, that's a pretty annoying issue. Sonic in itself is known for having great music, after all. Mind you, I think this also depends if you actually play through the game in question enough to memorize or hear a song often.(I can barely remember songs from Unleashed, but every game beforehand it's easy for me to recognize. Albeit, I think Black Knight is after Unleashed? But that and Secret Rings have a very memorable main theme). Generations naturally has memorable music, but you know, it has past music. Not the best example.

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

Unleashed had a fantastic soundtrack I thought, best one since Sa2 at that point although Secret Rings was close. Svannah Citadel, Empire City, Rooftop run, windmill day, chun-nan...whew.

Plus E-ranking theme is hilarious.

I like Unleashed's soundtrack. It was more jazz and funk. Colors leaned more electronic, and Lost World was more Ska.

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Unleashed definitely has the best soundtrack of the Modern era, perhaps even better than Generations' - which was also awesome.

Windmill Isle Day is one of my favorite tracks in the whole series.

In fact, the Modern Era had some pretty awesome soundtracks in general. Colors' was great, and Lost World had some great high points.

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Lost World's soundtrack is underrated like I don't know what.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

That's my favourite desert theme. I always do a dopey dance to that.

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I much prefer the pop punk of the Adventure games.

Think about it: Sonic was created to rebel against the authority of the ideal, personality-free heroes of gaming (particularly Mario), yet he can't go too far so that he can appeal to kids.

That's why pop punk works the best for Sonic out of any genre.

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I prefer the days when Sonic's soundtrack was disco and funk, but the Sonic series has never disappointed me, music wise.

Well, there was Chronicles...

edited 4th May '15 10:49:40 PM by KnownUnknown

"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.

Speaking of the music...

Crush 40 does not disappoint.

Spends past 5 minutes watching video.

I'm surprised that Sonic Heroes didn't make the montage...

edited 4th May '15 11:24:32 PM by RabidTanker

Answer no master, never the slave Carry your dreams down into the grave Every heart, like every soul, equal to break

-gently places everybody's favorite Sonic music on the table-

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I'm a little late to this, but:

You don't need to have played something personally to form an opinion on it. It certainly is the quickest way to form one, but other ways exist. Watching others play the game is a perfectly valid way to do it, particularly if you watch a variety of such sources instead of finding only one and sticking with it (although if one feels the latter is sufficient, then so be it; everyone forms opinions differently).

And yes, I have played the game. It is every bit as terrible as the various Let's Plays I linked to earlier make it look. The only credit I'll give the game is that the soundtrack is pretty decent (as is the usual case with Sonic games, obvious exceptions aside). Thus, the "you haven't played it" argument is not applicable here regardless.

The premise that Sonic 2006 is a terrible game that does most everything wrong? No, I'm pretty sure there's consensus on that. Your apparent dissent does not change that; most consensuses have dissenters barring the rare times they're unanimous, that's just how things go.

Unless you meant the specific "changing characters is terrible" premise, in which case: I'm tired of getting essays in rebuttal to everything I say on the matter, so I'm not going to waste my (or worse, everyone else's) time pushing that any further. My argument has been made, there's not really anything more I can add.

Own it. Loved it as a kid. It's not very good, by, well, any stretch of the imagination. It's still a damn sight better than 2K6.

EDIT: TinyURL'd that Wikipedia link

edited 6th May '15 9:13:10 AM by ShadowHog

Moon◊

...I actually like the Spinball options music.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

I kinda do too, but then I also kind of like "Nocturne" somewhat ironically. Either way, it is rather obnoxiously loud, and kind of a stand-out in that soundtrack for that.

Moon◊

Now hold on, there's an argument.

You would be hard-pressed to convince me that "Sonic 2/R/3/Adventure/Colors" is terrible, if you haven't even touched the game.

I wouldn't say that's a valid opinion, or a good way to argue quality. You can't form an opinion on a piece of art if you haven't actually looked at it. You can't accurately review a film if all you did was google the plot synopsis or read the script, that's asinine. This is a visual medium, you can't gather everything from secondhand observations.

Practically every game can be deemed boring if you're not actually playing it. If we judged this series based purely on critical receptions or Let's Plays, we'd probably hate everything past Sonic 2.

edited 6th May '15 11:05:42 AM by Soble

I'M MR. MEESEEKS, LOOK AT ME!

I'm not really convinced that's the case. I don't need to have seen Troll 2 in its entirety to understand that it's a terrible movie, or why that's the case. Getting opinions from people who have seen it, watching reels or clips highlighting its flaws... I can form an opinion of the film based on that, and that's fine. I mean, this is kind of why reviews exist - to quickly form an opinion based on the opinions of others, generally with the context of deciding if a piece of media is worth spending some of your limited time on this mortal coil on in the first place.

Obviously film is a purely visual media, so points there are easier to get across via videos than with video games, where videos can't accurately depict things like control issues. In the case of 2K6, I'd say those come through pretty clearly, with players twitching off into unintended directions at full speed in the blink of an eye, but for less-blatant examples, those control issues can remain hidden; I don't think you can tell from a video of Generations just how sluggish Sonic feels when he's not blasting forward at full speed (partly because going full-speed at all times is kind of the point of that game, so a good video isn't likely to highlight how it feels when you're not doing so).

Actually, call me a cynic, but frankly, actually playing some games is liable to leave you with a worse impression than just watching videos about them was, because then those hidden negative factors that weren't conveyed from secondhand footage make themselves known. Obviously not all games, just the ones with those subtle control or game design issues. (...Not that I'm saying Generations is a terrible game or anything - it's pretty awesome - but I never did feel its controls when not moving at full speed felt quite right. Slow acceleration or something. Not something that comes across well in a video, but something that makes its ugly head very apparent when you get hands-on.)

I don't agree with Ben Croshaw on everything, but I think he was on-point when he noted being wary to give total approval of a game he was enjoying but hadn't finished because the game could drop the ball in the last moments and sour the entire experience, whereas he felt perfectly confident on giving disdain for games he hadn't finished but hated, because the ball-dropping had already happened. That's applicable here: if the game has sufficiently turned me off in a video, then it's unlikely getting hands-on will change my tune any - the ball's already been dropped.

(...this came out a lot longer than I meant it to be.)

edited 6th May '15 11:43:14 AM by ShadowHog

Moon◊

This comparison doesn't work because you can't "play" movies for yourself like you can with video games. You even admit as much at the start of your next paragraph.

To pity someone is to tell them "I feel bad about being better than you."

you don't REALLY need to play sonic 06 to see it's bad though. the game grumps' playthrough is so rife with glitches, terrible loading screens, bad design, etc, that i feel comfortable labeling it bad even though i've not personally played it.

You really do if you want to actually give a good and well-defined rview of the game. Why should we take the opinion of someone who hasn't had any legit experience with the game itself. That's not your opinion we're reading, but someone else's. You don't have to want to play the game, but you don't really know how it actually plays either. No amount of reviews or playthroughs will ever replace or be equivalent to real experience.

...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.

i'm pretty sure my opinion of the game wouldn't be any different if i played it. the terrible art direction and janky animations(which are apparent to anyone who can watch videos of it) are already huge turn-offs for me.

normally i would agree with you, and it's your prerogative to disregard whoever's opinion if they haven't really played the game, but things like the glitches, the laughable storyline, bad loading times, bad art direction, etc are things anyone can see without actually playing the game.

so to put it concisely: no i haven't played 06, but it LOOKS like an awful game to me. that's pretty fair, if you ask me.

edited 6th May '15 2:19:54 PM by wehrmacht